Doug PollardWendy Francis apologises: equal marriage juggernaut keeps rolling
Wendy Francis says sorry for homophobic tweet
DOUG: We welcome back now, one of our very favourite regulars: Corey Irlam. Hello, Corey.
COREY: Good day Doug. How are you?
COREY: Not bad at all.
DOUG: What’s going on in the world of politics, then?
COREY: It’s an interesting time with the Victorian election as Ted Baillieu as leader gets sworn in. Which is probably an interesting development for the community? We’ve had a long-term ALP government down there (sic) that have done a lot of pro-GLBT reforms and there’s no reason to automatically assume that won’t continue with Liberals in government. It probably has new relationships to build.
DOUG: Yes and that’s going to be the problem now, isn’t it – because it’s almost like starting from scratch all over again. We do have these long-standing links; we don’t have the same kinds of links into the Liberal Party even. Never-mind the government – some, but not hugely. On the other hand Baillieu is much more middle-of-the-road than say, Tony Abbott?
COREY: Yeah. Yeah, that’s true. But also there’s also a huge amount of moderates sitting around Baillieu - Mary Wooldridge comes to mind.
DOUG: M’mm?
COREY: Who has been long-term friends with the community; David Davis is quite pro. He’s heading up the Upper House. So I think it’ll be an interesting development time, some interesting ways forward.
DOUG: Yes – well, I noticed one of his senior advisors is Petro Georgiou and that gives me some hope for the future as well. ‘Cause Petro’s always been pretty supportive of the gay community, too.
COREY: I’ve never met with him.
DOUG: But anyway; what’s Labor doing, federally speaking,apart from this week, they’re tearing themselves apart over nuclear power and they’re still going on and on about marriage. Where is all this leading to, do you think we’re really going to see a major change in Labor policy(ies) do you think?
COREY: I think we will see a change in Labor policy but it’s going to be a very long 12-months between now and the ALP Conference at the beginning of December 2011. It’s going to be a time for the community to engage with mainstream Australia in all electorates around the country. On why these issues are important – that’s something we’ve had limited success in doing that’ll hopefully, improve. Going forwards. So that people realise this isn’t just a – a fight about principle or equality – but this actually affects people’s lives.
DOUG: I think it’s a big cue to the right-wing to come up and say: if we’re going to re-visit gay marriage we want to re-visit nuclear power. Is this just a spoiling tactic?
COREY: No. Look, I think it’s just the ALP going through its processes [indistinct] set the agenda of when the ALP Conference is this happens every time. People bring-up issues they want to talk about.
DOUG: Is this going to de-rail the gay marriage debate in any way, do you think?
COREY: I don’t know about you, Doug. But I can walk and chew gum at the same time.
DOUG: Well, I sometimes wonder if the Labor Party can?
COREY: I think they’re often focussed on individual things but – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Because we keep on hearing: oh, we’ve more important things to do. Oh, we can’t do this because we ought to be concentrating on what works for working families – or whatever the excuse happens to be. As if they couldn’t do the gay marriage thing at the same time.
COREY: Well, I think the biggest problem for the ALP is [indistinct] policy in this area. (and) The ALP processes are they need to change their policy and that’s what they’ve said they’re going to look at doing and we’ve seen Penny Wong last weekend come out at the State Conference [indistinct] in-party environments which is what she said we (sic) shall do – and came out, quite strongly. In favour of gay marriage. We’ve seen Doug Cameron on ABC Radio talking about civil unions not being enough.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: We’ve seen – m’mm, Tanya Plibersek consulting with the community about what form of relationship recognition they want. We’re seeing even people like Justine Elliot the former Minister for Ageing consulting with her rural electorate. This is a positive step forward. People are talking about it. They’re actively taking-up the opportunities that Adam Bandt’s motion provided – to engage – with their communities. (and) I’m hopeful that the ALP will change its position come December next year.
DOUG: I find it very interesting that the Australian Industry Group leader – what’s her name? Heather Ridout - - -
COREY: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: - - - came out and said she didn’t see anything wrong with gay marriage either. That’s the first time we’ve had anybody from that side of the equation making a statement.
COREY: It’s not the first time that we’ve seen business make a statement; there’s another of businesses in the Australian Marriage Equality website who have endorsed same-sex marriages. Before the 2008 reforms came in place a number of companies – like, the ANZ were providing entitlements to their organisation’s employees.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
COREY: If they were married overseas. But now obviously, with 2008 reforms recognised [indistinct] everybody’s able to do that. So it’s not a new thing. But what is new is to see a leader of a national lobby group for the business community coming out and saying, look, we don’t agree with a lot of things on the [indistinct] but on this one we do. There’s no reason why not – and so, hopefully – we’ll see more of those perhaps perceived to be less likely people come out and show their support.
DOUG: Yeah. My first reaction to that was that’s great – now, let’s have the doctors and the lawyers – and all the other professional groups come out and say the same thing; do you think the momentum is now unstoppable?
COREY: Ah – look, it’s not my word to use: unstoppable. There are – Anthony Albanese at the last ALP Conference and I think he was right, then and I think he remains right, now – this is unstoppable. We got a huge gust of wind in the last 3-months and I expect that will continue to grow over the next 12.
DOUG: But if we have to wait until – what is it? December. Next year, before Labor even thinks about changing its policy isn’t that enough time for the wind to go out of the sails?
COREY: There is a risk, there’s not much that we can do about that though. In the sense the ALP’s ruled-out a conscience vote. We’ll still continue to push that for them and who knows? They may recognise what a number of their Party members have been saying and that is, this is a non-issue for most Australians. They either support it or don’t really care.
DOUG: Most people think we should get on with it and get it over and done with.
COREY: That’s right.
DOUG: Is the thing I think we’re hearing from most people – even from opponents, saying, why are we wasting time on this?
COREY: I wouldn’t say “most” people but I would say a large number of people.
DOUG: M’mm. Okay – well, one opponent that we did have – we probably still have – was Wendy Francis from Family First.
COREY: Yes.
DOUG: Now, she wasn’t very nice towards us during the Federal election campaign was she?
COREY: No. During the federal election campaign when Wendy Francis was a candidate for the Family First ticket – in the federal election for Queensland, in the Senate – she through her Twitter account I should say, made a comment about linking same-sex relationships with child abuse. Children in those relationships. (and) A number of people got quite upset by that including a member of the AIDS Committee, Kelly Pilgrim-Byrne who raised this issue with the anti-Discrimination Complaints Tribunal in Queensland and successfully got an outcome from that case. Wendy Francis came out in the Australian last week, apologising. Putting an apology in her Twitter account last week and also this week attending a course on diverse families.
DOUG: We ought to say at this point, she never admitted to Twitter-ing it herself did she?
COREY: No.
DOUG: She said it was somebody on her staff or whatever, who made the Tweet in question.
COREY: That’s right. That’s what she said but the more important point was in her apology not only did she say this was not her view but she also recognised, publically, that there is no research to back-up the statement that same-sex relationships are in any way linked to child abuse. (and) That’s a significant step. To have someone who often [indistinct] around the edges with these issues to make an unequivocal statement saying: there is no evidence for this claim.
DOUG: This was done under which law – was this under Queensland law?
COREY: Yeah. It’s an interesting situation. The complainant was a WA resident.
DOUG: Yes?
COREY: Made a complaint under Queensland law where Ms. Francis was. (and) It’s just absurd that we still don’t have federal anti-discrimination laws that would cover this, to be able to ensure that across interstate borders somebody can make a complaint, easily. Not all States allow an inter-state complainant.
DOUG: In this case the Queensland Anti-Discrimination law did allow - - -
COREY: Yes. Yes.
DOUG: - - - Kelly to make her complaint from WA?
COREY: That’s right, yeah.
DOUG: (and) Then what happened; this has gone through a hearing?
COREY: They go through conciliation.
DOUG: M’mm?
COREY: (and) If they can’t come to an outcome in conciliation it would go to a hearing. In this situation the conciliation process was agreed to by both parties.
DOUG: Right and as a result of this, the Family First candidate in question Wendy Francis has attended a Diverse Families course this week.
COREY: That’s right. That’s right, that’s all that we know about. That particular course. My understanding it includes information about same-sex relationships, same-sex families and the issues they face and it’s a rather good course, from what I understand.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: (and) It’s pleasing to see that as a gesture to the community how Ms. Francis was willing to educate herself on the issue. So she’d be more informed, in the future.
DOUG: Yeah. It doesn’t necessarily say she’s changed her mind, whatsoever. But it is interesting she chose to go down this route rather than continue to fight.
COREY: Yeah. Look, I’m not so sure it necessarily changed her mind; her position is she’s never believed that child abuse is linked to same-sex relationships. She’s just now made that unequivocal and public so whether that be a bit of saving face or not is neither here-nor-there.
DOUG: M’mm.
COREY: It remains a fact on public record of her as a person who was publically out there saying – or seems to be out there, saying – same-sex relationships were linked to child abuse. Now they’re saying there’s no evidence for that. The next person who comes along trying to say such hogwash - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - referred to the statement. Saying, maybe you should research facts.
DOUG: It’s interesting that since, she’s resigned her membership of Family First.
COREY: Yes. I’m not sure what that’s all about.
DOUG: Probably ‘cause she didn’t get in.
COREY: Possibly.
DOUG: But it is – you know? It does seem to indicate there was a bit of a change of mind going on.
COREY: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: Hopefully.
COREY: Yes.
DOUG: Well at least that’s a win for our side?
COREY: M’mm and look, it’s not just a win for our side. But it’s also evidence to show people out there in the community that making a complaint on these issues does actually have a tangible result. It does have outcomes. (and) It’s important to do so.
DOUG: We’re going to have to wrap that one up there, Corey. Thank you – welcome back to the programme, after a lengthy absence.
COREY: Thank you.
DOUG: It’s nice to talk with you again and we will no doubt, be speaking again very soon.
COREY: Thanks very much, Doug.
