Doug PollardTranscript - Rodney Croome (inc. reaction to Adam Bandt)
DOUG: …… my next guest who is Rodney Croome from the Tasmanian Gay and Lesbian Group. Good morning, Rodney.
RODNEY: Good morning, Doug.
DOUG: Well, did you hear anything of what Adam [Bandt] had to say?
RODNEY: No, I’m afraid I didn’t. What was he saying about negotiating?
DOUG: Corey Irlam sent in a message saying that [indistinct] decide what the strategy is about bringing in the Marriage Bill given that we’ve got a conference – party conference coming up that may well change the policy and so on and so forth, Adam said he needed to sit down with people like Corey to map out a plan of action. What would be the best time to bring on the Bill and other GLBTI issues; so, he wants to sit down with whatever activists are available, I guess?
RODNEY: Well, more than happy to sit down with him and talk about this, this is an important issue. Obviously it would make more sense to introduce the legislation when the Greens have the balance of power in the Senate - - -
DOUG: Yes.
RODNEY: - - - and obviously, pressure needs to be put on to see if the Labor Party will allow a conscience vote and if there is the possibility of some movement after the national ALP conference, that would be good. But the ALP conference is quite a way away - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
RODNEY: - - - and – m’mm, brings us much closer to the next election. We have to take that into consideration as well, particularly when it comes to Labor’s desire to do anything. So, there are a number of different factors which need to be taken into consideration, there need to be some pretty hard-headed talks about all of this.
DOUG: Yes, all the hard heads need to get together and strategise - - -
RODNEY: Yeah - - -
DOUG: [laughs] if that - - -
RODNEY: It’s not a matter of throwing up a Bill and saying: yes, there it is world, support it.
DOUG: Well – I mean, we have any number of issues one of which I was just canvassing with Adam just now which is whether in fact a conscience vote for example, is a particularly good idea anyway – you know, whether it’s better to wait ‘til we have a party on side, for example.
RODNEY: M’mm, there are obviously arguments both ways on that one. People in the Labor Party are more likely to argue against a conscience vote because they don’t like them. They will say that the Labor Party is the proper vehicle for a reform like this but look – frankly, it’s been six years since Labor supported putting that same-sex marriage ban in place. There’s been virtually no movement on its policy against same-sex marriage and absolutely no movement when it comes to what the Labor Party itself is doing in Parliament. I mean, it still supports the ban on issuing same-sex couples marrying overseas - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
RODNEY: - - - with the documents they need to do that. It seems unlikely that at the next ALP National Conference the ALP will suddenly switch over to supporting same-sex marriage and given that I think a conscience – pushing for a conscience vote does make sense.
DOUG: M’mm, do you think they’ll be pushed from within Labor for a conscience vote. A lot of people have mentioned people like Antony Albanese who are now a bit on the nose because of the Greens push in their constituencies, possibly raising pressure for a conscience vote from within the Labor Party.
RODNEY: Yes, well, that’ll be good if he did. Of course, the moment there’s any movement with this issue within the Labor Party, any real movement then you could imagine that the Catholic right, in the Labor Party will probably also be saying they want a conscience vote. Because they will not allow the party, they will do everything they possibly can to stop the party supporting this as a party – m’mm, to them it seems for whatever reason, to be a life-and-death issue. So, I see whichever course this takes it ending up being a conscience vote for the Labor Party and given that’s the likely outcome just get on with it - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
RODNEY: - - - and – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Yeah-yeah-yeah – well – and - - -
RODNEY: Some people say a conscience vote is a problem because it means we have to get people out there lobbying each individual member and – yeah, that’s a hassle and yeah, that means that - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
RODNEY: - - - the churches who oppose this will hammer us. But they’re going to do that anyway - - -
DOUG: (and)I think we might find a surprising number of people on the Liberal side, too, who are not entirely opposed. If they were freed-up to vote according to their conscience on this.
RODNEY: If you look at the surveys of candidates from the 2007 Federal Election about 60 per cent of Labor candidates – that’s sitting and non-sitting members – supported same-sex marriage and about 30 or 40 per cent of – m’mm, Liberal candidates so if that’s a reflection and it’s the best indicator we have of what the current MPs actually feel about it regardless of their party policy, then we’ve got a good chance. I mean, obviously it’s not a dead-cert(sic) - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
RODNEY: - - - but it’s still pretty touch-and-go as this, currently in New South Wales with the adoption issue – but there’s a good chance - - -
DOUG: M’mm, I just - - -
RODNEY: - - - they would actually support it on the first vote. Just because they vote it down once doesn’t mean it’s lost completely. A conscience vote can happen again and again, we can as they say in America: lose it forward.
DOUG: [laughs]
RODNEY: M’mm, it would mobilise a lot of people and I know that people right across the country who are ready to get in there and talk to their MPs about this. The one thing that’s stopping them is that they can’t be bothered hearing these lines that we get from the major party politicians which everyone knows are insincere but which we can’t get past. The only way to get past them is to have a conscience vote.
DOUG: Yeah, I’ve just been told in fact that the debate on the Adoption Bill is back on this morning in the New South Wales Parliament. So, we might get some kind of decision out of them, you never know.
RODNEY: Yeah – well, fingers crossed.
DOUG: Fingers crossed; now, let’s get back to what’s been happening down in Tassie(sic) because as I understand it, the decision’s been made in the Lower House in Tasmania that Tasmania is going to recognise same-sex unions of all kinds including same-sex marriages solemnised overseas or interstate. Is that right?
RODNEY: Yep, that’s exactly right – m’mm, we’ve been lobbying for this for about five years now. About five years Britain and New Zealand when they brought in their civil partnership schemes they automatically recognised Tasmanian Deeds of Relationship - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
RODNEY: - - - which are the equivalent of the Civil Partnership, as civil partnerships in those countries. Which brought immense benefits to Tasmanians travelling in or relocating to or claiming benefits from Britain and New Zealand - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
RODNEY: - - - and that was documented in the Human Rights National Enquiry about same-sex entitlements so what the Tasmanian government’s doing now is its basically reciprocating that recognition. Not just overseas but also interstate because the ACT civil partnership scheme, in New South Wales they have the capacity to – hope Victoria will too at some stage as well – recognise Tasmanian unions. So, we should recognise those in return. Now as you indicated the controversial issue there of course is the recognition of overseas same-sex marriages. Some people in the Tasmanian Parliament – in the end only three out of the 25-member Lower House, said: oh, no, we can’t do that because first of all same-sex marriage is wrong and secondly, because the Marriage Act prohibits the recognition of same-sex marriages in Australia - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
RODNEY: - - - and has done since 2004. But the government – the Labor Government and the Greens and also the majority of Liberals rightly made the point that the Marriage Act as it was amended in 2004 only prohibits the recognition of overseas same-sex marriages as marriages - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
RODNEY: There’s nothing about the recognition of those overseas same-sex marriages as civil partnerships.
DOUG: Ah, ha.
RODNEY: Given the fuss about those amendments in 2004 and how heavily scrutinised they were and how many enquiries there were, you would imagine that if the intention was to ban all recognition of overseas same-sex marriages whatsoever, then the Marriage Act would say that. But it doesn’t. So - - -
DOUG: Okay - - -
RODNEY: - - - m’mm - - -
DOUG: What happens next, then – does it go to an Upper House?
RODNEY: Yes. Well, the Tasmanian Upper House will look at this at the end of this month - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
RODNEY: End of September. As some of your listeners might know the Tasmanian Upper House is very unpredictable. It’s made up almost entirely of independents - - -
DOUG: Right.
RODNEY: - - - so every vote in the Upper House is basically a conscience vote and it’s impossible to know how it will respond. But I expect it will look at the issue fairly pragmatically.
DOUG: Well, we can often be surprised by these things. I just got another message in here about the same-sex adoption vote up in New South Wales. Apparently opposition leader Barry O’Farrell is speaking in favour of the Bill so that’s a nice little surprise there.
RODNEY: Yeah. Well, you don’t want to anticipate these things but it is looking good so – m’mm, if we anticipate it is a positive outcome in New South Wales that will be really important for similar reforms in the other states. Victoria, Tasmania and Queensland.
DOUG: Okay. We’re going to have to leave it there, Rodney. Thank you very much for stepping into the breach and joining us this morning.
RODNEY: No problems, no problems Doug - - -
DOUG: (and)I’ll pass you on Adam Bandt’s ‘phone number if you haven’t got it already.
RODNEY: Please do.
DOUG: All right, thanks Rodney.
RODNEY: Thanks. ‘Bye.
DOUG: That was Rodney Croome there, from the Tasmanian Gay and Lesbian Rights Group. Good news from Tasmania there and it sounds like good news coming out of New South Wales as well.
