Doug PollardTranscript - Prof. Bebe Loff, Dir. Michael Kirby Centre
DOUG: Recently I had the pleasure of attending the launch of the Michael Kirby Centre down at the Positive Living Centre; now, it’s called – let me get this right, The Michael Kirby Centre for Public Health and Human Rights. Joining me on the line right now is the director of the centre, Associate Professor Bebe Loff. Good morning, Bebe.
BEBE: Hello, Doug.
DOUG: First of all..... what is the Michael Kirby Centre for?
BEBE: We, in terms of our research look at the relationship between the promotion of peoples’ human rights and the promotion of health so it’s our view I guess, that you can’t separate out peoples’ health status from the way in which they are being treated by the society in which they live.
DOUG: Right, ‘cause this is a bit of an issue in some countries isn’t it because there’s been attempts to for example, criminalise HIV transmission?
BEBE: Well, HIV’s the obvious case where generally speaking issues of discrimination have a direct impact on the way in which HIV is likely to impact upon individuals and the community so where individuals are stigmatised and isolated and not really permitted to access ordinary services or whatever, provided by the community – as a citizen – then it is more than likely that health will suffer.
DOUG: This is a particular problem in countries where it’s illegal to be gay, for example?
BEBE: Well not just where it is illegal. But where people who are gay are stigmatised and can’t be allowed to be comfortable with who they are within that community. Sometimes irrespective of laws, peoples’ attitudes can have a similar affect so it’s one thing to suggest that a society ought to reform its laws it’s quite another to look at the environment and try to ascertain whether peoples’ rights are really being fully respected or not.
DOUG: So, what kind of research is going to be done here; are you going to look at for example, specific countries or are you going to look at the impact of specific laws – how is that going to work?
BEBE: We already had a research programme, the [indistinct] of the centre is actually putting together some pre-existing work that has been done within this department over 20-years but giving it a shape. So that what we do ranges from work involving exhumation of mass graves in former Yugoslavia and identifying grave sites in East Timor, for example - - -
DOUG: Ah-huh?
BEBE: - - - and making a contribution to justice all the way across to looking at an issue like obesity and asking the question as to whether this is a problem that is generated by individuals and their lack of control around food. Or whether this is something that is really generated by corporate activity given that peoples’ genetics haven’t really altered that much in the last 50-years. When we’ve seen a huge growth in obesity.
DOUG: Yes and we don’t really know why that’s happened.
BEBE: Well, I think we do. We’re just not prepared to attribute it to anything other than the choices people make about what they eat - - -
DOUG: Yeah, it’s purely personal responsibility according to the narrative that we have at the moment, anyway - - -
BEBE: Precisely, precisely and - - -
DOUG: You’re saying that responsibility is spread wider than that?
BEBE: Well - - -
DOUG: Possibly?
BEBE: I don’t think there’s any doubt myself, that – m’mm, peoples’ relationship to what they eat and how much they eat has to be relative to the sorts of foods that are around them and the sorts of ways in which those foods are being offered to us. So – you know, you go into a supermarket today for example and it’s actually, the supermarket is structured to make sure that we buy the wrong foods rather than the right foods.
DOUG: Yes, I remember someone who designs supermarkets that I used to know telling me if you want to avoid all the bad stuff in the supermarket just stick to the edges. Don’t go down the middle [laughs]
BEBE: Yes, exactly. There are so many tactics. But just to go back to the work of the centre, we do a whole range of things. But the theme that sits behind them is really, how the ways in which societies are structures contribute to our health. I think it would be really true to say that the emergence of HIV has caused many of us to re-think that question and look at the relationship between peoples’ status and peoples’ health in a far deeper way than had previously been the case.
DOUG: Yeah – because until HIV came along if you had an infectious disease and you were considered a danger to the public – public health officers still do in fact, have the power to lock you up don’t they?
BEBE: Well - - -
DOUG: That’s no answer when you’re dealing with something as widespread and as intimate as HIV.
BEBE: Well, yes. I think that the – m’mm, capacity of public health officers to lock people up still has to be there. When you’re looking at diseases that can spread incredibly quickly - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
BEBE: - - - with the opportunity to cause really serious harm and death. Some of the hemorrhagic fevers - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
BEBE: Would fall into that category.
DOUG: Yes, something like Ebola.
BEBE: That’s right.
DOUG: Yeah.
BEBE: But AIDS is not that so, the idea that one would use those powers to deal with AIDS as has been the case is ludicrous. But all of that had to be re-thought because it was clear at the beginning that there was the potential and in some places that potential was actualised to treat people as if they have Ebolavirus.
DOUG: M’mm. So, this is obviously very, very important work. Hence, the connection with the UN because you had UN representatives there at the launch, didn’t you?
BEBE: Yes. Michel Sidibé, the Executive Director of UN AIDS launched the centre and it was lovely. He abandoned his speech and he said he would speak from the heart which he did and I think that added a moment of warmth to the launch.
DOUG: Yes, indeed and he also promised to sign a memorandum of understanding on the spot if someone could draft it – I think there was a sudden rush of lawyers, to the front of - - -
BEBE: Oh, yes. That has been drafted and sent; in fact, we had a number of offers saying: where’s(sic) the serviette and the pen?
DOUG: That’s great. Well, thank you for joining us this morning Bebe and good luck with the centre. It sounds like its doing some really, really important work there.
BEBE: Thank you very much.
DOUG: That was Associate Professor Bebe Loff, there. She is the Director of The Michael Kirby Centre for Public Health and Human Rights.
