Doug PollardTranscript - Daniel Witthaus in Canberra
DOUG: We’re heading off into the wilds of somewhere to talk to Daniel Witthaus; good morning, Daniel.
DANIEL: Good morning, Doug.
DOUG: Not so wild this week, you’ve been in Canberra?
DANIEL: Yeah, it was all very civilised in Canberra, in the nation’s capital for all things federal election - - -
DOUG: [laughs] You actually made it into the tally room and I remember talking to you on election night, you gave us a very useful description of the back of Penny Wong’s head.
DANIEL: Yeah. I saw Penny from a-far, for those who don’t know – all of the TV broadcasts of all the various channels were set up and I could see the back of Penny Wong’s head and I joked on the night that I thought about hurling something – whether it be abuse or a bottle or something like - - -
DOUG: [laughs] What was it like being in the tally room, does it have an electric atmosphere or was it very business-like?
DANIEL: I must admit it was very subdued. I stood in a queue for about an hour and five minutes to get in, on a very cold Canberra night and I heard a lot of people talking and they just said: this is very quintessential Canberra, we all queue-up to go. So, I felt it was something they just did because it was there - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
DANIEL: - - - when I got in I didn’t feel it was exciting other than people like myself who are going: let’s find where our seat is on the tally room board – and – ‘let’s have a look at the bright lights of the television’ but – m’mm, as I wrote about in my blog, I don’t think you’re going to get any scoops on the tally-room floor. I think they’re happening everywhere else around the country and on TV quicker than I could get them on the floor. So - - -
DOUG: Yeah. Yep-yep-yep; well, you were doing more interesting things in Canberra anyway – I mean, I suppose it’s quite nice to say you’ve been there, you’ve done it. You’ve been in the tally room and as you point out on your blog you’ll probably never be there at an election time again. So, why not?
DANIEL: Yes.
DOUG: M’mm, some [indistinct] tick off your bucket list, as they say – not that it ever was on mine I must admit - - -
DANIEL: As I explain to people I’m strange and nerdy so, yeah. That is part of my bucket list. Yeah.
DOUG: [laughs] Okay; you must have found lots of nerds to ogle who were there, there must have been horn-rimmed glasses, wall-to-wall? Right - - -
DANIEL: All I’ll say to that is “yes” and “no comment”.
DOUG: [laughs] You should have been here with our tame psephologist. In Canberra you met-up with some local people and you had a particularly interesting encounter with a woman called: Gail. You might tell us a bit about that?
DANIEL: Gail is a person who’s been involved quite heavily with lesbian health in Canberra and also involved with doing a bit of research into LGBT young peoples’ experience in Canberra schools and when I met up with Gail, what I found was she was – I don’t know, I found her quite territorial. She seemed to be quite annoyed that I – like, she was grateful that I wanted to sit down and talk to her about her experiences. But she was also annoyed because she didn’t know exactly who I was or what I was doing and I describe how there was a bit of tension where – it was kind of like a verbal arm wrestle for her - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
DANIEL: - - - to try and establish her authority and credibility and what I was trying to do was just say: look, I’m just here to hear your experiences – and – ‘it’s okay you don’t know who I am’, ‘that’s what I’m here to talk to you about’.
DOUG: M’mm. M’mm. Well, you got past that and you got the local story, as it were, from her. It seems to be yet again, this same rather disturbing story that in theory there’s lots of facilities available in one way or another for same-sex attracted youth – you know, understanding teachers and all this kind of thing. But when you go and look for it in practise it’s not there.
DANIEL: Yeah; so, what Gail was describing is her research with Canberra students was that most of the students didn’t feel they could talk to anyone at the school and most of them didn’t – m’mm, of those that did there were two responses; one was: ‘don’t tell me that and go off there and be like the other boys’, ‘I don’t really want to know that you’re gay’.
DOUG: M’mm.
DANIEL: Then the other was talking to counsellors and what’s happening which is reflected across the country is this idea that once the students come out it’s the focus on the student and its building up their resilience. Rather than any thought that you would look at the bullying and harassment that’s going on. Anything to do with the environment itself. So, in that sense there was an issue there and then, there seemed to be – I guess it’s a vibe, between the boys and the girls we interviewed. Most of the boys that were interviewed had come out in some regard and they were experiencing more abuse and harassment and it was thought to be linked to the fact that they were out. Whereas, the young women were much more likely to – m’mm, to not be out more widely and they didn’t seem to have the same extent of abuse and harassment that the boys did.
DOUG: Is that down to the old, old story that straight boys tend to think lesbians are hot?
DANIEL: Well, certainly these young women were saying that; they said that – you know, the boys think it’s hot and they either didn’t think about it much or they found it incredibly annoying. It was one of the two but what Gail was saying was there wasn’t too much thought going on – or reflection, on the young peoples’ existence – they just go: oh, they think I’m hot and it’s annoying – or – ‘I’ve never really thought about it before’. There wasn’t any reflection – like, some of the rest of us do. From time-to-time.
DOUG: M’mm, I want to go on and talk a bit about Jane. Now, she’s from Belconnen Youth Services, is that right?
DANIEL: Correct, yes.
DOUG: Now, she was saying that: “It’s a total cop out when people say, ‘we’re not a gay or lesbian organisation and so we can’t do the work’”, is there a lot of that attitude around in Canberra?
DANIEL: Yeah, talking to Jane who’s become more and more involved in LGBT youth support that would be the attitude she’s finding in both schools and within organisations. It’s really interesting because Jane identifies – she says: I’m in a heterosexual relationship and a lot of people have questioned me for doing this kind of work, this LGBT young people’s support. She comes from regional New South Wales and she said it was a real eye opener for her to start working on this support group that was part of her youth services – she said, ‘yeah, yeah, I’ll take it on board’ not really thinking much about it and this actually happens quite a bit around Australia. What she said is the more she worked with the young people and the more she experienced the issues, the more she got enraged and passionate about letting people know they have to do more about this work. So, she’s a real example of someone who hadn’t really encountered the issues before and has been converted – you know?
DOUG: M’mm.
DANIEL: For want of a better word, into being an LGBT advocate. She’s saying that she knows there are a lot of attitudes out there amongst mainstream organisations that they don’t necessarily have to be doing this work but she’s working hard and talking to many other services about the fact that they need to.
DOUG: Yeah. Well, that’s good to hear and it’s a little bit the difference here, little bit the difference there. One more person – you know, it’s so hard to keep the momentum going. But it’s good that there are these individuals who do pick-up on all this. Summing up, what would you say is your overall impression of Canberra from a GLBTI perspective?
DANIEL: Look, I think if you look at young peoples’ experiences in schools the conclusion would be that things are probably slightly more positive than – m’mm, most other places that I’ve been to in Australia with the exception of the major cities. ‘Cause – you know, Canberra itself is pretty much regional rather than metro - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
DANIEL: - - - and I think there’s a flavour of – I guess, for LGBT people in Canberra there’s this thought that they don’t necessarily have community life, venues and – like, Oxford Street; they feel that they’re the poor cousin of Sydney whereas, if you actually look at it there(sic) there are lots of opportunities to get engaged with the community, in Canberra – it’s just they think that they’re always looking over their shoulders at Sydney and that has an impact on how they feel about the place that they’re in.
DOUG: That’s a very suburban attitude - - -
[Laughs]
DOUG: - - - a lot of people say Canberra’s a suburb in search of something. That reinforces my impression - - -
DANIEL: With a lot of round-abouts.
DOUG: Yes. Have you ever been to Milton Keynes in the UK? One of the - - -
DANIEL: Ah, no I haven’t. But I’ll put it on my bucket list should I? Or - - -
DOUG: Yeah. One of those new towns that – it’s round-abouts galore.
DANIEL: Yes.
DOUG: So that you don’t get lost all the streets going north-south are labelled: “one”, “two”, “three”, “four” and all the ones going east-west are: “a”, “b”, “c”. “d”.
DANIEL: How very reasonable and organised.
DOUG: Indeed. Just like New York. Where are you off to next, Daniel?
DANIEL: Off to Broken Hill so, a rather big drive to get out that way.
DOUG: M’mm, yes, that is a bit of a long way ‘round. Okay, well, we look forward to hearing from you next week.
DANIEL: Done. Have a great show, ‘bye-bye.
DOUG: Thanks, Daniel. That was Daniel Witthaus with his view on all things Canberran(sic), Broken Hill next week.
TRANSCRIPT ENDS
