Doug PollardTranscript - Daniel Witthaus challenging homophobia in Newcastle & the Central Coast
DOUG: Last week Daniel Witthaus was in the relatively civilised surrounds of Sydney. But he was heading off for Newcastle and I was wondering openly last week whether that might not be quite such a safe place to be as Sydney – but we’ll find out because Daniel joins us on the line, now – good morning, Daniel.
DANIEL: Good morning, Doug.
DOUG: So, how was Newcastle?
DANIEL: Newcastle was a bit of a challenge because I seemed to pick the week everybody was out of town or busy or had family – medical emergencies, so, I didn’t get to talk to as many people as I wanted to and it just illustrates that I’m only in every place for one week. But the people I did talk to had some pretty good things to say about Newcastle – obviously, with a few exceptions to that.
DOUG: Well, at least you managed to get through all the difficulties – and you seem to have come out okay, on the other side and you met some worthwhile people?
DANIEL: Absolutely. I met some people from the local organisations and also some people who have been involved in some of the community events, over the years – and I’m told that Newcastle has a history of about, at least 25-years where they’ve had strong social groups meeting and supporting one another for at least – you know, since the mid-1980s which is quite exciting.
DOUG: I got the impression though, that it’s like some of the other places you visited and people are a bit nostalgic and saying ‘well, it used to be better’ and ‘we used to have more things, it’s declined somewhat’.
DANIEL: Yeah, I think that’s just a function of age with lots of us - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
DANIEL: - - - but I did get the feeling – but what I suspect has happened, is that Newcastle has changed – like, I had someone say to me: look, it’s still working class – like, there have been so many things changed but it’s still working class – and as happens in the second-biggest city in most of the States and Territories I’ve visited you have this splitting of the community where half want to stay around and enjoy life, in their place. Whereas the other half just want to get out or travel to Sydney or where-ever else each [indistinct] and what happens then is you’ve got a splitting of this community that could be doing something in town. I think what they were saying was 25-years ago people chose to stay, socialise and gather in Newcastle and they didn’t have as many options to get out. So, that was one of the reasons but also I think, in some ways Newcastle has relaxed in a lot of ways around LGBT issues.
DOUG: Yeah, but there was – I mean, the story of Simon that you tell on thatssogay.com.au – I found that fairly horrifying – I mean, it’s great that he came through it. But what a terrible time that boy had?
DANIEL: This is – you know, a relatively recent story of a young man who was going to school on the central coast and I’d been talking to people here – like, I’ve just moved to Bathurst and I’ve been talking to people and they’re saying – you know, the Central Coast has got everything. The Central Coast has got this – no-one cares, but this is a perfect example of a young man who had support for being gay, from his family and from some teachers. But he was getting an horrific time at school – m’mm, really, had no option (but)to leave in the end because even though he had all of these attributes that in any other kind of town in Australia I’ve heard young people thrive, he was just copping it day-in, day-out - - -
DOUG: Yeah – and this was not just your verbal bullying or whatever else, he was being beaten up, he was being thrown down staircases and the staff were joining in to some extent. Certainly verbally?
DANIEL: Yes. Certainly, there was one story where he went into a class and they said: ‘Simon Smith, get out of this classroom right now’ and he’s say: well, why is that – and the teacher would say: ‘Because I don’t want a faggot like you in my classroom’. Now, what options do you have if you’re a student at that school and he said with comments like that and [indistinct] like that from the teachers and then, I guess, the fact that he had all of this physical bullying he had no choice either to snap or leave and he managed to do that but only after things escalated for him.
DOUG: There wasn’t very much support from the Head of the school, either?
DANIEL: Yeah, I think the Head of the school was like many principals - - -
DOUG: Trying to turn a blind eye to it, almost.
DANIEL: Absolutely. Simon’s mother encouraged him to go up to the school and take a letter and say, we’re(sic) sick of the violence, we’re sick of you sitting on your hands – and – we want something done about this, we want our son protected and able to stay at school because he’s rather bright – and the principal just said: ‘we really don’t have a problem, we don’t really know what you’re talking about’ – and then Simon knew that two of the teachers who are supporting him actually put in official complaints about the violence. He said two teachers – I’m not making this up, two teachers have put in official complaints. That’s fairly serious, I want something done about this – m’mm, only then did the principal get involved and say, look, there must be something we can do to exit you quietly from the school - - -
DOUG: That’s not really a lot of help, is it – that’s just passing the problem on to somebody else?
DANIEL: Absolutely, it’s passing on the problem – m’mm, but at that stage I think what Simon was saying, he just wanted to get out – when he realised that that was the attitude of the principal he just knew that he had to get out and – m’mm, the principal finally relented. But only after a 15, 16-year old boy had to talk him through that and that’s a ridiculous state of affairs
explaining and advocating on behalf of himself.
DOUG: Indeed. I love the part though, where he gathered a squad of girlfriends around him for protection. I think that’s brilliant. Where his girlfriends all – sort of, formed an honour guard, almost. To keep an eye on him and make sure he didn’t get into too much trouble.
DANIEL: It’s amazing how many stories like this we find, that girls are incredibly protective of young gay boys in schools and certainly, that was his experience. So, he only had the option of having lots of girlfriends around him, to protect him so that he literally would not get bashed and kicked – and there were certainly stories of him taking himself to the doctor. Or his mum taking him to the hospital. Then, he would also go to the art room and the staff room and that was where he could be with staff who were supportive and that was if they were there and if they had the time. So, his options seemed to narrow for him to the point where he said ‘I have to get out’ and one of the things he was saying is that he could have gone to another school. But the Central Coast is – you know, is such that people would know that a gay guy had been moved to another school and he just felt that he was going to be a target where he left(sic) because the Central Coast was small enough - - -
DOUG: (and)He wouldn’t have his girl squad - - -
DANIEL: - - - yeah. Absolutely; so, that for him wasn’t an option. Again, this is only a recent story and for all the great stories that I actually did hear about students and supportive schools in the Newcastle region – m’mm, that was one of them that was not the case.
DOUG: Yeah, I’ve heard similar stories here in Melbourne, relatively recently as well; only a couple of years ago I was interviewing some people at Eltham High School and there was – I talked to one mother, there. Her son had been relentlessly bullied at the other school he was at before he went to Eltham High, to the point where he’d ceased speaking to anyone and he never lifted his eyes above the ground - - -
DANIEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - m’mm – and within about six months of being at Eltham High, he’d actually started to come out of himself, again. As she said, he’ll probably never be completely right again but at least, ‘we’ve managed to rescue most of him’. That was only a couple of years ago.
DANIEL: Yeah – and talking to teachers who go: It’s just a little bit of banter – and – It’s a bit of bullying and we all go through it – and it’s just – you know, it’s just words, it’s just a couple of rough-ups – m’mm, you can actually see in very real terms, about how that impacts on someone’s life and most likely, for the rest of their life – and again, this is something that has impacted on Simon’s life to the point where he was expected to go through and get stunning marks – and he wanted to be a doctor and he said: “I had that taken away from me” – and – I had to do a lot of work to get to the point where I returned to university to study and get myself prepared. “Because I decided what had happened to me at high school was not going to affect me for the rest of my life”, I wasn’t going to let it – but you know, again, that’s something. He had to go through that process, himself – m’mm, he had to go through that and it’s like he’s taken the responsibility - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
DANIEL: - - - for everything that’s happened. Stories like that, that – you know, that wake me up in the morning and get me ready to go.
DOUG: Yes.
DANIEL: But – you know, it’s heartened me that what do you do in that situation – and yeah, I just take my hat off to Simon and so many other young men and women like him.
DOUG: Yeah. Well, thanks very much for that, Daniel. Where are you off to, next?
DANIEL: I’m off to Bathurst and also to Orange – and I’ve got 520 students to speak to during an intermission of Rent. So, that’ll be interesting let me tell you - - -
DOUG: Interesting. Yes - - -
DANIEL: - - - talk about that next week.
DOUG: All right. Thanks, Daniel.
DANIEL: Take care, Doug. ‘Bye.
