Doug PollardTranscript - Corey Irlam election analysis
Corey Irlam
DOUG: You’re listening to: Freshly Doug, on Joy.94.9 – my name’s Doug Pollard and joining us on the line now is someone who’s been uncharacteristically absent from the airwaves and indeed, absent from the country all through the election; Corey Irlam, from the Australian Coalition for Equality. Good morning, Corey.
COREY: Good morning, Doug. How are you?
DOUG: Well, I’m fine if a little bemused by all the political shenanigans, how are you?
COREY: I think there’s been nothing better in my last seven weeks than at 2a.m. just before going to bed tuning in to Australian news – it was, seeing the shenanigans or lack thereof, that’s been going on - - -
DOUG: [laughs] Well, what’s your take on what the meaning of all this is?
COREY: Well, let’s do the gay stuff first - - -
DOUG: Yeah, okay.
COREY: - - - we’ve got anti-discrimination commitments from both federal Labour and federal Coalition, slightly different commitments; Coalition’s guarantee sexual orientation in relationships status, Coalition’s guarantee sexual orientation in gender identity, at the end of the day - - -
DOUG: Hang on a minute. Coalition – I think you said “coalition” twice, there. Can you - - -
COREY: Sorry, ALP has guaranteed sexual orientation and gender identity - - -
DOUG: Right.
COREY: But not fully committed on relationships. I think that will all work out in the wash - - -
DOUG: Right.
COREY: - - - that’s really important because that’s probably one of the key if not, the key legislative reforms for this term.
DOUG: Right – well, I think George Brandis, when I spoke to him and I queried about that, where gender identity was in all that, he said something along the lines of - - -
COREY: “By sexual orientation I mean - - -”
DOUG: ‘By sexual orientation I mean I include gender identity and expression.”
COREY: Yep – and that’s why I think it’ll all come out in the wash - - -
DOUG: Right; okay – just to get that clear.
COREY: - - - yep. M’mm, so that’s good. That’s something for the last 15-years has(sic) been talked about in the Federal Parliament right up ‘til earlier this year when the ALP announced their Human Rights Framework. There wasn’t a firm commitment from either party so, that’s a good step forward - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
COREY: There is of course, the Marriage Act that we don’t have commitments on. But I think you’ll find - - -
DOUG: Well, we do from the Greens.
COREY: - - - sorry, we don’t from the major parties. We do from the Greens - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: (and)I think that any – m’mm, power-sharing arrangement that involves the Greens might only be a good thing for us given how prominent that was in the Federal election.
DOUG: Well, it was notable yesterday when all the – what shall we call them; all the ‘independents’ were talking away altogether the first thing Adam Bandt brought up when he was called upon to say his little bit was the commitment to same-sex marriage - - -
COREY: M’mm.
DOUG: So, it’s still up there front and centre, in the agenda. I didn’t catch a glimpse of Bob Katter’s face when he said that.
COREY: You took the words right out of my mouth - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - I was so disappointed there wasn’t a wide shot to camera when it happened. ‘Cause I reckon that good-old hat of Bob’s just might’ve blown off his head.
DOUG: [laughs] Well, he’s been throwing his weight about – what was the phrase I heard the other day, “like a mallee bull”, whatever one of those may be. But I think he might find it a bit difficult to come at that given that he voted against the 85-or-however-many legal changes it was the last time out.
COREY: It’s interesting, though. One of Bob’s things that he’s been talking about is a little while ago in his electorate they had somebody committing suicide – a farmer, committing suicide. Every four days.
DOUG: M’mm.
COREY: (and)Given the high prevalence [indistinct] suicide and mental-health issues within the LGBT community if that is an issue for Bob, it’ll be interesting to see whether he does listen to those statistics and does perhaps have a more compassionate view than he did toward the 2008 reforms.
DOUG: But you know, there are no queers in Queensland according to him.
COREY: Yeah – but – you know, that was, what – six-years ago, that comment was made when Brokeback Mountain came out?
DOUG: Yes.
COREY: I think that we’ve had lots of migration to this country and surely a few boat people should’ve ended up there that were queer - - -
DOUG: [laughs] Well, we - - -
COREY: - - - only joking.
DOUG: We sincerely hope so – m’mm, obviously, this whole business with the independents has complicated the issues in one way but in another way it could very well – kind of, like, bust open. All the old assumptions, couldn’t it – as far as we’re concerned?
COREY: Yeah – look, there’s an interesting thing people need to be aware of; both Tony Windsor and Rob Oakeshott supported the 2008 same-sex reforms, Rob Oakeshott’s response to the New South Wales Gay and Lesbian Rights Lobby’s 2007 election survey was quite promising and Bob Katter’s electorate when it hasn’t been controlled by Bob’s family - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: Has been an ALP seat. So – you know, it’s actually not that bad when you delve into the detail over it.
DOUG: It doesn’t look too bad to me. I’m quietly optimistic, it also seems quite likely to me looking at the way the arithmetic’s working out and looking at the attitudes that are on display none of these guys really want to put Tony Abbott in.
COREY: It’s not so much, I think, that they want to put Tony Abbot in as much as a number of the people that we’re talking about have concerns about Warren Truss being Deputy Prime Minister of Australia - - -
DOUG: [laughs] Well, at least we don’t have Wilson Tuckey to contend with any more.
COREY: I think we’ve got Bob Katter now instead of Wilson Tuckey. He’s performing the role of the crazy uncle isn’t he?
DOUG: Something along those lines. Look Corey, I want you to stay on the line and we’ll talk about this some more. We’re going to take a wee break here and play a little piece of music which is going to be: Madonna.
[music]
DOUG: (and)We’re running low on time but I want to get some more words in here from Corey Irlam, from the Australian Coalition for Equality. Corey - - -
COREY: Very briefly Doug, I had to say have you seen the ABC Mash Ups - - -
DOUG: - - - m’mm - - -
COREY: At the end of “Q-and-A”?
DOUG: No, I haven’t.
COREY: Well, I’m listening to that song from Madonna and I had this great visualisation of Adam Bandt and back-up dancers from the three independents along with Julia and Tony saying - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - “give it to me, give it to me” – you know?
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: (and)It keeps on going on and on so, let’s go back into it.
DOUG: Yes; now – m’mm, where do you think this is going to – look into your crystal ball – where do you think this is going to go?
COREY: Okay; so, we’re not going to know anything ‘til – probably, the end of next week. M’mm, it won’t be until Wednesday that we have the first-round counts and all that that’s going to do is have somebody challenge them and cause a re-count - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: - - - we’re definitely not going to know this week. We’re probably going to have an insight, middle of next week because what’s really crucial here, for the independents is what are the final numbers?
DOUG: M’mm.
COREY: You know – m’mm, are we talking about all four independents being needed for one side – is it 73-a-piece and it only needs three of them – is it 75, 72 and then – you know, they only need one of them. That will be a very big influencing factor. But they’ve pre-empted the possible outcome to say that it could be necessary for them to have independent support by introducing their seven-point request yesterday - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
COREY: - - - and given the Opposition and Coalition trying to do it so far - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: Unfortunately Tony Abbott’s decided not to give them costings from Treasury rather than give him(sic) costings from his independent coster(sic) - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
COREY: M’mm, that doesn’t necessarily look favourable because you can’t compare apples with apples, necessarily. They have asked for advice from a person from Liberal and a person from Labor. I believe that is going to be some ex-lobbyists or some ex-members who are now lobbyists - - -
DOUG: Yeah?
COREY: - - - and that will help them. Rob Oakeshott got an independent in the New South Wales State Parliament helping him so, there’s a lot of discussion to go on and it’s all about the continuity of government. It’s about seeing a three-year term. It’s about making sure – m’mm, that the government can continue to make that, full time - - -
DOUG: Now, this - - -
COREY: - - - blocking supply – yeah?
DOUG: This is the question that I asked Andrew Potts when he was on earlier on – surely, anybody could sign a piece of paper saying, ‘yes, we’ll go the full three years’ and then manufacture a crisis to get out of it later on.
COREY: Yeah. But it would have to be a serious reason as opposed to ‘well, we’ve knifed our leader in the back so we’d better go to an election poll’.
DOUG: I’m not as sanguine as you, I think we’re going to have motherhood and apple pie for about six months and then it’s all going to steadily drift back the way it was.
COREY: Even Rob Oakeshott and some of the independents are saying that – you know, once we’re back into parliamentary swing people should be adversarial. Before we get into parliamentary swing we need to create some guidelines, we need to go down a path so that we can ensure government is able to operate. All that means is what Andrew Wilke’s talking about as a bare basis that – you know, ‘I’m not going to vote against you unless you do something seriously bad, in a vote of no confidence’ and ‘I’m not going to block supply bills just because I don’t like them, I’m going to work through the details with you’. But that doesn’t mean they’re going to roll over dead and become a member of the party. They’re still going to be independent, they’re still going to demand what they need to for their electorates and so they should.
DOUG: Indeed they should – I mean, one of the emphases that Rob Oakeshott has been putting up over and over again is that this should return much more power to the floor of the Parliament and see much less power to the Executive. That’s one of his aims, he wants to see discussions and negotiations and arguments about policy taking place on the floor in the House, not in the back rooms. That has implications in particular, for the way Labor does business. It has implications which would seem to indicate they’re going to have to give up their notion of everybody having to be bound by Caucus all the time.
COREY: I don’t think it does, actually, Doug – m’mm, I think that what Rob’s talking about is that often what happens is a minister will talk to a shadow minister before the Bill comes up, they might tweak it. They might talk about it in-principle and had the debate in the media over big-ticket items. What Rob’s saying is that that debate, that introduction – that discussion, that negotiation – should occur as part of the parliamentary process. I don’t think that stops the Party having a tradition of being unified, entering into the negotiations. What it might mean is that ALP has to go back to their Caucus, twice; once, with what they start with and then, second time ‘round for what they actually, finally, agree to in the Parliament.
DOUG: It’ll be interesting to see how it all works out. It sounds much more like the British model in many respects where Party discipline is loosened up that little bit and there is much more cross-communication and - -
COREY: I think the issue with Party discipline is going to be if somebody feels very strongly about it, in the ruling Party – if one or two MPs don’t agree with the tradition of the government what you could see is them crossing the floor. Even in an ALP-situation; now, previously that would not have happened – m’mm, because it would have been – not any point, but let’s say for example the Opposition is(sic) the people the independents select, they don’t have a binding Caucus and therefore Members can cross the floor on issues of conscience. So, that could be even more interesting on social affairs issues where you do have some very conservative Members of Parliament deciding they can’t support the position that’s been negotiated with the independents and things don’t get through.
DOUG: Well, we’re going to have to leave it there, Corey. No doubt we’ll have many more fascinating discussions as this issue progresses?
COREY: Look forward to speaking with you next week about it - - -
DOUG: (and)No doubt we will, thank you very much.
COREY: - - -‘bye-bye.
