Doug PollardSingapore Sex, Gay Rugby & other news
Freshly Doug interview with Andrew Potts, Sydney Star Observer
DOUG: We’re going to catch-up now with Andrew Potts, from the Sydney Star Observer. Good morning, Andrew.
ANDREW: Good day, Doug.
DOUG: Yes. You missed all the excitement here. All of us running down the stairs to get out on the street. But it was a false alarm.
ANDREW: All the fires are out, good to hear.
[laughs]
DOUG: Good to hear, yes – now, what’s going on in the world up in Sydney?
ANDREW: I think it’s more things that are going on overseas at the moment - - -
DOUG: Yes?
ANDREW: - - - of course will all the national news, we’re not really paying too much attention to that. There’s – Singapore’s sodomy laws are about to be challenged, there are of course similar challenges in Nepal and in India, recently. Led to the sodomy laws there, being taken down. In this case it’s a result of a man who was charged with having consensual, oral sex with another man. After an alleged incident in a shopping centre toilet he’s now taken that to court. Because Singapore has this old, colonial law on the books - - -
DOUG: Yes.
ANDREW: - - - but there’s also – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Carnal Knowledge against the Order of Nature – or something like that, isn’t it?
ANDREW: That’s right – but there’s also – m’mm, a more modern law. Which punishes the same thing, which doesn’t discriminate people based on their sexuality or gender; it’s a doubling-up of the law, there. Also the government gave basically, a promise, they wouldn’t be using the old law anymore and he’s now been charged on that. So, it looks like they have a good case, there. M’mm - - -
DOUG: They also de-criminalised oral and anal sex, heterosexually. Some while back, didn’t they – so, it’s only an anti-gay law now?
ANDREW: - - - that’s right – and I mean, this is all despite the fact that the Singaporean government has been saying it’s going to de-criminalise homosexuality since 2007, when former prime minister Lee Kuan Yew made a statement in support of tolerance of homosexuals – it’s – you know, Singapore’s health minister has come out and said – and he’s obviously looked into it, the evidence is homosexuality is in-born. He’s talked about some of the research’s implied that gay men’s brains are structured, differently – from heterosexual men’s - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
ANDREW: So, they do seem to have done some research, there. Prime minister Lee Kuan Yew was practically prime minister for life and you’ve got his brother who’s now running the place and he’s the [indistinct] official policy – but when you have a virtual one-party state already it’s hard to see what the resistance is, to doing it – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Well, don’t they always say – offend against the community’s standards – I think, was the phrase I heard last time. When this one came out.
ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah, the – I mean, you’d think Lee Kuan Yew - - -
DOUG: Whatever that means.
ANDREW: - - - power figure would be the one setting the community standards?
DOUG: M’mm.
ANDREW: One thing that is interesting that’s come out of this is that Singapore’s gay rights group: People Like Us. They’re not a party to the case - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
ANDREW: - - - but they’ve said they were disappointed to see the gentlemen charged on that particular charge. They’re in favour of it being dropped but they’re also in favour of the non-discriminatory law being left in place. Because they do believe that – m’mm, sex in public places should remain a crime.
DOUG: Yep – well, it seems like a reasonable point of view. Let’s see how that one goes – I mean, we never expected the Indian law to fall over quite as easily as it did in the end. It seemed like we were pushing against something that was ready to fall and maybe, that’s the case too, here?
ANDREW: That’s right and of course, there was something similar that pushed the situation over in Fiji and even though Fiji is a military dictatorship I know the Fijian travel authorities have been trying to court gay tourists - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
ANDREW: - - - then and also the first gay group has been set up in the University of the South Pacific. Maybe we’re seeing things catch up to the rest of the world, there?
DOUG: Yes. That’s surprising ‘cause I think the University of the South Pacific is very heavily Mormon, if I remember rightly? Very heavily supported by the Mormon Church, it’ll be interesting to see how that one goes.
ANDREW: Yeah.
DOUG: One of the things I discovered when I went to Hawaii and I went to the Pacific Cultural Centre, there. Was to discover how pervasive the Mormon faith is in the Pacific, which I had no idea of before. Same thing happened when I went down to New Zealand, too.
ANDREW: That is rather an odd one because the Mormon’s message, that Jesus went to America doesn’t seem to have much of a - - -
DOUG: No [laughs]
ANDREW: - - - you wouldn’t assume it had a big ring for Pacific people unless maybe, he did a bit of island hopping on the way - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
ANDREW: There was a big write-up in the Fiji Times - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
ANDREW: - - - and all the people involved in the group were happy to show their faces. In the picture I believe, they had a couple of local celebrities involved in the launch. So, it seems they’re quite comfortable being out in the open, about this.
DOUG: M’mm. One thing I did notice on the Sydney Star Observer website and it’s going to be of interest to some of our people, down here. Because obviously we now have our own rugby club; gay rugby club, here – but we’re not going to get the Bingham Cup in Sydney?
ANDREW: That’s right – I think that was a big disappointment. There was an event held last night. There was a telecast between London, Manchester and Sydney – m’mm, I’d thought because the telecast was scheduled for 8.30-Sydney time I’d assumed they had it in the bag - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
ANDREW: - - - but no, Manchester have got it. I mean, it would’ve been the first time the Bingham Cup had come into the southern hemisphere and a lot of people have been saying that in order for it to have been a real, international competition it has to – but it looks like – m’mm, with the [indistinct] and the British and American economies, you know – not quite where they were in the past and I guess, with the Australian dollar creeping up [indistinct] factor - - -
DOUG: Might make it a bit expensive for the Americans to come over.
ANDREW: - - - yeah. They weren’t so keen on having to pay to come all the way over here, to play – so, yeah. A big – big disappointment and I think not just for Sydney – but I think, you know – for Australia. Would’ve been good to bring that competition, here – m’mm, but – you know, fingers crossed. Maybe for the one after that?
DOUG: Yeah – well, could be and could be next time both Sydney and Melbourne will bit for it? Because that time we could be a bit more established with our Melbourne Chargers, down here - - -
ANDREW: I think competition’s always a good thing.
DOUG: - - - [laughs] and what else is rugby about – okay and anything else you want to talk to us about, this morning?
ANDREW: I think you may have mentioned it already – but the Greens petition that they’re running, to support a conscience vote. I think it’s very important everyone gets involved in that.
DOUG: This is for their same-sex marriage bill they’ve brought back into the parliament, they’re asking people to sign a petition - - -
ANDREW: That’s right.
DOUG: - - - to help lobby to get it brought forward to a vote.
ANDREW: That’s right, it’s on Sarah Hanson-Young’s Greens MP website – I mean, they’re doing pretty well, I think at last count they had about two and a half thousand - - -
DOUG: Yep.
ANDREW: - - - signatures and this is in less than 24-hours. The issue here is we don’t know when the bill’s going to be voted on – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Or if, at all? According to Ms. Gillard. She seemed to drop a fairly hefty hint she’d stand in the way of it even brought to the floor.
ANDREW: - - - yeah. So I think, no matter what happens it’s important we all try and show there is real, community support out there for this – not just sign it ourselves but – you know - - -
DOUG: Encourage our friends, families – parents, siblings. Employers. Etcetera, etcetera.
ANDREW: - - - definitely, definitely.
DOUG: I’ll go and talk to the check-out ladies in my local Coles. They’re very good at this sort of thing. Thanks very much for that, Andrew.
ANDREW: No worries, Doug.
DOUG: Have a good week.
ANDREW: Thanks.
DOUG: That was Andrew Potts, there. From the Sydney Star Observer.
DOUG: We’re going to catch-up now with Andrew Potts, from the Sydney Star Observer. Good morning, Andrew.
ANDREW: Good day, Doug.
DOUG: Yes. You missed all the excitement here. All of us running down the stairs to get out on the street. But it was a false alarm.
ANDREW: All the fires are out, good to hear.
[laughs]
DOUG: Good to hear, yes – now, what’s going on in the world up in Sydney?
ANDREW: I think it’s more things that are going on overseas at the moment - - -
DOUG: Yes?
ANDREW: - - - of course will all the national news, we’re not really paying too much attention to that. There’s – Singapore’s sodomy laws are about to be challenged, there are of course similar challenges in Nepal and in India, recently. Led to the sodomy laws there, being taken down. In this case it’s a result of a man who was charged with having consensual, oral sex with another man. After an alleged incident in a shopping centre toilet he’s now taken that to court. Because Singapore has this old, colonial law on the books - - -
DOUG: Yes.
ANDREW: - - - but there’s also – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Carnal Knowledge against the Order of Nature – or something like that, isn’t it?
ANDREW: That’s right – but there’s also – m’mm, a more modern law. Which punishes the same thing, which doesn’t discriminate people based on their sexuality or gender; it’s a doubling-up of the law, there. Also the government gave basically, a promise, they wouldn’t be using the old law anymore and he’s now been charged on that. So, it looks like they have a good case, there. M’mm - - -
DOUG: They also de-criminalised oral and anal sex, heterosexually. Some while back, didn’t they – so, it’s only an anti-gay law now?
ANDREW: - - - that’s right – and I mean, this is all despite the fact that the Singaporean government has been saying it’s going to de-criminalise homosexuality since 2007, when former prime minister Lee Kuan Yew made a statement in support of tolerance of homosexuals – it’s – you know, Singapore’s health minister has come out and said – and he’s obviously looked into it, the evidence is homosexuality is in-born. He’s talked about some of the research’s implied that gay men’s brains are structured, differently – from heterosexual men’s - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
ANDREW: So, they do seem to have done some research, there. Prime minister Lee Kuan Yew was practically prime minister for life and you’ve got his brother who’s now running the place and he’s the [indistinct] official policy – but when you have a virtual one-party state already it’s hard to see what the resistance is, to doing it – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Well, don’t they always say – offend against the community’s standards – I think, was the phrase I heard last time. When this one came out.
ANDREW: Yeah. Yeah, the – I mean, you’d think Lee Kuan Yew - - -
DOUG: Whatever that means.
ANDREW: - - - power figure would be the one setting the community standards?
DOUG: M’mm.
ANDREW: One thing that is interesting that’s come out of this is that Singapore’s gay rights group: People Like Us. They’re not a party to the case - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
ANDREW: - - - but they’ve said they were disappointed to see the gentlemen charged on that particular charge. They’re in favour of it being dropped but they’re also in favour of the non-discriminatory law being left in place. Because they do believe that – m’mm, sex in public places should remain a crime.
DOUG: Yep – well, it seems like a reasonable point of view. Let’s see how that one goes – I mean, we never expected the Indian law to fall over quite as easily as it did in the end. It seemed like we were pushing against something that was ready to fall and maybe, that’s the case too, here?
ANDREW: That’s right and of course, there was something similar that pushed the situation over in Fiji and even though Fiji is a military dictatorship I know the Fijian travel authorities have been trying to court gay tourists - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
ANDREW: - - - then and also the first gay group has been set up in the University of the South Pacific. Maybe we’re seeing things catch up to the rest of the world, there?
DOUG: Yes. That’s surprising ‘cause I think the University of the South Pacific is very heavily Mormon, if I remember rightly? Very heavily supported by the Mormon Church, it’ll be interesting to see how that one goes.
ANDREW: Yeah.
DOUG: One of the things I discovered when I went to Hawaii and I went to the Pacific Cultural Centre, there. Was to discover how pervasive the Mormon faith is in the Pacific, which I had no idea of before. Same thing happened when I went down to New Zealand, too.
ANDREW: That is rather an odd one because the Mormon’s message, that Jesus went to America doesn’t seem to have much of a - - -
DOUG: No [laughs]
ANDREW: - - - you wouldn’t assume it had a big ring for Pacific people unless maybe, he did a bit of island hopping on the way - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
ANDREW: There was a big write-up in the Fiji Times - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
ANDREW: - - - and all the people involved in the group were happy to show their faces. In the picture I believe, they had a couple of local celebrities involved in the launch. So, it seems they’re quite comfortable being out in the open, about this.
DOUG: M’mm. One thing I did notice on the Sydney Star Observer website and it’s going to be of interest to some of our people, down here. Because obviously we now have our own rugby club; gay rugby club, here – but we’re not going to get the Bingham Cup in Sydney?
ANDREW: That’s right – I think that was a big disappointment. There was an event held last night. There was a telecast between London, Manchester and Sydney – m’mm, I’d thought because the telecast was scheduled for 8.30-Sydney time I’d assumed they had it in the bag - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
ANDREW: - - - but no, Manchester have got it. I mean, it would’ve been the first time the Bingham Cup had come into the southern hemisphere and a lot of people have been saying that in order for it to have been a real, international competition it has to – but it looks like – m’mm, with the [indistinct] and the British and American economies, you know – not quite where they were in the past and I guess, with the Australian dollar creeping up [indistinct] factor - - -
DOUG: Might make it a bit expensive for the Americans to come over.
ANDREW: - - - yeah. They weren’t so keen on having to pay to come all the way over here, to play – so, yeah. A big – big disappointment and I think not just for Sydney – but I think, you know – for Australia. Would’ve been good to bring that competition, here – m’mm, but – you know, fingers crossed. Maybe for the one after that?
DOUG: Yeah – well, could be and could be next time both Sydney and Melbourne will bit for it? Because that time we could be a bit more established with our Melbourne Chargers, down here - - -
ANDREW: I think competition’s always a good thing.
DOUG: - - - [laughs] and what else is rugby about – okay and anything else you want to talk to us about, this morning?
ANDREW: I think you may have mentioned it already – but the Greens petition that they’re running, to support a conscience vote. I think it’s very important everyone gets involved in that.
DOUG: This is for their same-sex marriage bill they’ve brought back into the parliament, they’re asking people to sign a petition - - -
ANDREW: That’s right.
DOUG: - - - to help lobby to get it brought forward to a vote.
ANDREW: That’s right, it’s on Sarah Hanson-Young’s Greens MP website – I mean, they’re doing pretty well, I think at last count they had about two and a half thousand - - -
DOUG: Yep.
ANDREW: - - - signatures and this is in less than 24-hours. The issue here is we don’t know when the bill’s going to be voted on – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Or if, at all? According to Ms. Gillard. She seemed to drop a fairly hefty hint she’d stand in the way of it even brought to the floor.
ANDREW: - - - yeah. So I think, no matter what happens it’s important we all try and show there is real, community support out there for this – not just sign it ourselves but – you know - - -
DOUG: Encourage our friends, families – parents, siblings. Employers. Etcetera, etcetera.
ANDREW: - - - definitely, definitely.
DOUG: I’ll go and talk to the check-out ladies in my local Coles. They’re very good at this sort of thing. Thanks very much for that, Andrew.
ANDREW: No worries, Doug.
DOUG: Have a good week.
ANDREW: Thanks.
DOUG: That was Andrew Potts, there. From the Sydney Star Observer.
