Doug PollardRegeneration time @ Victorian AIDS Council
It's renewal time at many of our long established GLBTIQ organisations. Joy 94.9 is about to elect a new board and appoint a new Broadcast Manager. The ALSO Foundation is riven with dissension and on the brink of change. And the Victorian AIDS Council has just elected a new President who at 28 is markedly younger than most of the board members and management, heralding a generational change at the organisation. We Dig Deeper with Michael Williams.
DOUG: This hour as always, we have one special guest in the studio with whom we ‘Dig Deeper’ into their life and work. Today, we have Michael Williams, who has just been elected as the new president of the Victorian AIDS Council and that was his first choice of music. It was Dolly Parton from the movie: Transamerica. “Travelin’ Thru”. Good morning, Michael.
MICHAEL: Good morning, Doug. Thanks for having me.
DOUG: You’re welcome – now, why did you choose that particular piece of music?
MICHAEL: M’mm, I’m a huge Dolly Parton fan. My parents took me to a Dolly Parton concert in Hobart when I was four - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
MICHAEL: The love of Dolly started there - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: - - - and it hasn’t ceased.
DOUG: She is a bit of a character. I remember once, seeing her – I think it was “Parkinson” in the UK and she had short hair – and Parkinson asked: what happened to all your beautiful, blonde hair? She said: “It’s in the car, honey – you want me to go get it” [laughs]
MICHAEL: [laughs]
DOUG: I’ve liked her ever since - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah, she’s a great – she’s a great idol.
DOUG: Oh, she’s quite a character – she is quite a character. Now – you’re a very young man to be taking-over a post like president of the VAC. Normally, it’s some old warhorse like me - - -
MICHAEL: [laughs]
DOUG: - - - apologies to Kevin Guiney who’s been doing it for the last 8-years but, you know, the VAC has been run - I suppose, both management-wise and board-wise pretty much by a collection of middle-aged people I think it’s fair-to-say - for quite some time and now suddenly we have someone very much younger popping in to the hot seat; how long have you been at the VAC?
MICHAEL: I started volunteering at the VAC in 2006. I was co-ordinating the HIV/AIDS legal centre at the Positive Living Centre when I was a law student and someone encouraged me to run for the Board. Because they said that – m’mm, having some younger talent on the Board would be good and I went from there. (and) I was elected to the Board in 2008 and assumed the presidency this year.
DOUG: Now, we’ll get to what that might mean for the organisation - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: - - - a bit further-down-the-track ‘cause I know you’ve got plenty of ideas - - -
MICHAEL: M’mm.
DOUG: About where you want the VAC to go and what contribution you think - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - you can make. But let’s talk a little bit about you first off. Whereabouts were you born?
MICHAEL: I was born in – m’mm, Launceston and grew-up in northern-Tasmania. In a small town called: Longford. So it’s about 20-minutes - - -
DOUG: You’re a country boy from - - -
MICHAEL: I am.
DOUG: - - - Tasmania [laughs]
MICHAEL: I’m from – yeah, from rural Tasmania – so that does shape one’s outlook and – m’mm, future.
DOUG: Well, it does. You said in your notes you gave me before we started the show, you said – like most gay kids in the country area you encountered a lot of homophobia and bullying at high school, were you “out” at school?
MICHAEL: No and I don’t remember anybody at my high school being out. As such. People were - - -
DOUG: What kind of year are we talking about?
MICHAEL: - - - so this would’ve been 1998 - - -
DOUG: Right.
MICHAEL: ’97 – ’98. Yeah, ’98. So it would’ve been very unusual for anyone to have been openly gay. Certainly, certain people were targeted as being gay and I was one of those but – no, I was certainly never out and never identified as gay to other people.
DOUG: Was it legal in Tasmania at that time?
MICHAEL: It became legal on 1-May-1998 – so, in my last year of high school the government changed the law.
DOUG: Right - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - yes. I had a similar experience in England except mine was in 1967.
MICHAEL: [laughs]
DOUG: I also found myself targeted even though I wasn’t out. Do you think that shaped your decision to get involved in GLBTI organisations?
MICHAEL: I think it did. Because when I came to Melbourne as I think I said to you before, I did go a bit crazy and – m’mm, I - - -
DOUG: That’s when you came over in about 2001?
MICHAEL: - - - yeah. Yeah.
DOUG: Yeah.
MICHAEL: (and) I think – you know, I was - - -
DOUG: Well don’t we all when we go to college? Don’t we all, when we go to uni?
MICHAEL: I think so, yeah.
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: I think so. I had a lot of fun. I met a lot of guys – I did what a lot of people do, when they come to a big city.
DOUG: Sure.
MICHAEL: But I also had a very low sense of my own worth. I had very low self-esteem; I was affected by the bullying, I was affected by the homophobia I did experience in high school so it was actually – m’mm, when I came in to contact with – with VAC GMHC that I – I started meeting other gay men. I started receiving positive messages about being gay and it – kind of, went from there. My involvement – you know, went from that stage with VAC.
DOUG: Yeah. It’s unusual though to start your career in gay organisations with VAC - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - a lot of people come to VAC later down the track when they’ve perhaps, been involved in campaigning – perhaps been involved with the politics and that side of things didn’t appeal to you at all?
MICHAEL: I didn’t engage in any of that when I was in Tasmania and - - -
DOUG: (and) You weren’t exposed to it when you got to Melbourne – are you saying, VAC was the first thing you tripped over?
MICHAEL: Yeah. I think VAC was pretty much the first gay, community-based organisation that I had anything to do with, yeah - - -
DOUG: M’mm.
MICHAEL: - - - and I was interested because I was a law student, I was interested in legal policy reform. So – m’mm, I was very much – and that’s what interested me in terms of getting involved with HALC, the HIV Legal Centre at the PLC. I was interested in legal reforms so – m’mm, I was very much passionate and still remain passionate about that.
DOUG: But it’s unusual for someone your age to get passionate about the HIV-end of legal reform kind-of-thing - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: - - - a lot of your generation and the generation that are coming-along after you - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: They’re out there marching for equal love with the Socialist Alliance – whoever, you know – they’re campaigning for legal changes and things - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - but to go straight to an HIV-related organisation – like, VAC. Was that something to do with anyone you knew at college or people you knew at college, who had HIV – or something?
MICHAEL: No, not really. I think I was just interested in the way that - - -
DOUG: I mean, good-on-you for doing it.
MICHAEL: - - - sure, sure - - -
DOUG: I’m just interested how you got there?
MICHAEL: Why I got involved, yeah. I think I was interested in how people’s experiences of being gay and experiencing homophobia affects their health outcomes. I was - - -
DOUG: Now that makes sense.
MICHAEL: That was probably where the intellectual interest started - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
MICHAEL: - - - in terms of getting involved with VAC. M’mm, I’ve always been interested in how the law, how stigma and discrimination – obviously – affect people’s health outcomes - - -
DOUG: Because if you’ve low self-esteem you don’t necessarily take good care of yourself.
MICHAEL: Sure, yeah. That was certainly my experience.
DOUG: Now, you said you did some things you consider a bit risky - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - [laughs] we can all relate to that – of course, in my era it wasn’t as risky as it was in yours.
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: Okay. We’ll come back and we’ll talk a bit more about this in a moment. Particularly, we’ll start with your experience with VAC and where you want to take it from now. But let’s have another song – you’ve got Celia Cruise, this is from “Lantana - - -”
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: It’s called: Te Busco. Why did you pick this one?
MICHAEL: Because this is the song – m’mm, this is my partner and I – this is our song and it means “I search for you” in Spanish and my partner Juan, speaks Spanish. I think this song really captures how I feel about him. Which is when I’m down and I – I search for him.
DOUG: Okay. So, it’s Celia Cruz: “Te Busco”.
[music]
DOUG: (and) We’re digging deeper this hour with Michael Williams who’s just been elected president of the VAC – we were talking on air and I’ve asked him: ‘what’s a young chap like you doing with a bunch of old men’ [laughs] on the VAC Board. It is an interesting question ‘cause one of the things we’ve noticed happening in what I might loosely call and please don’t jump down my throat Michael, for saying this - - -
MICHAEL: [laughs]
DOUG: - - - the “AIDS industry” is that a number of other AIDS councils – similar organisations – are changing, quite radically. ACON was the AIDS Council of New South Wales; now, it’s just called: “ACON” – has become a much broader-based advocacy association. The Queensland AIDS Council has turned itself in to the Queensland Association for Healthy - - -
MICHAEL: “Healthy Communities”.
DOUG: - - - Communities or “QAHC” for short and again has broadened its focus – m’mm, VAC seems stuck in a bit of a rut perhaps?
MICHAEL: I think that – m’mm, one thing I would like to do as president and I want to first say that I think that who-would’ve-thought 27-years ago that the Victorian AIDS Council would still be with us? (and) I think that - - -
DOUG: Or still be necessary?
MICHAEL: - - - and still be necessary; which it is – I think that’s a testament to the people who work in it. Which are fantastic. It’s a testament to the people who have worked hard to create it and build-it-up over the years, ensuring it’s well resourced. But I think all good organisations – m’mm, reflect on how they do their work and always try and do their work better. VAC is no different in that sense and I think that definitely, one of the things that I would like – m’mm, is to see a broader focus on – on other at-risk groups. I would like to see us definitely, reaching out for instance to indigenous groups and that doesn’t necessarily mean taking-over the work of groups that already exist. But it means supporting – supporting those groups and seeing how VAC can use its expertise and the excellent campaigns it’s running to assist those groups. Definitely. I think that – m’mm, that - - -
DOUG: So you want to look for a broader focus - - -
MICHAEL: - - - definitely - - -
DOUG: - - - beyond the gay community?
MICHAEL: I think that the gay - - -
DOUG: Let’s be frank; basically, the gay-male community - - -
MICHAEL: - - - sure.
DOUG: Have been serviced up ‘til now.
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: Largely.
MICHAEL: Yeah, sure – and you know, that reflects – that reflects, m’mm – an epidemiological fact which is that – you know, most people living at-risk of and living with HIV in Victoria are gay men.
DOUG: Yep.
MICHAEL: (and) That will always probably be the case. But I think that – m’mm, you know – all good organisations look at how they can do their work differently and I think that you know, definitely, I would like to see us take on a broader focus. Looking at trans health, looking at indigenous health and seeing how we can support other organisations that work in that space. To be doing – to be doing their work better and to – m’mm, to be reaching the communities they’re trying to reach.
DOUG: As I said, ACON has moved to focus on – more broadly – than just on HIV/AIDS - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - they are now more broadly focussed, principally on health but particularly in the case of ACON even moving outside of the health sphere and moving more in to the political sphere; do you see VAC possibly developing in those kinds of directions?
MICHAEL: Well, I think we do – we do talk a lot about policy and legal reform. But again, that’s something that – m’mm, that we could always be doing better. I think that we can be talking about – m’mm, you know – those broader determinants of health, stigma and discrimination – and poverty – and social – people – and social class, their income. I think that those things are definitely issues that – m’mm, that I would like to see ramped-up and to see us talking about more. Definitely. But I think that – you know, there are three, big issues at the moment. Three, big policy issues Doug which VAC will really be talking about – m’mm, in future and they – they are the necessity in Australia for rapid testing - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
MICHAEL: The criminalisation of people who transmit HIV to others and HIV and ageing. I think they’re three, big issues that you’ll see VAC talking about a lot more over the coming months and the coming years.
DOUG: I was interested to hear you talk about the roots of poor health - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - things like poverty and discrimination - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - and poor self-esteem, so-on-and-so-forth – we were talking with Daniel Witthaus earlier on and he’s just been doing this fantastic tour around - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - Australia – sort of, uncovering and challenging - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - homophobia in schools around the nation and one of the things he said was that – you know, it’s the age-old problem. We’re very good going out there and putting a policy in place, we’re very good at going out there and doing – like, one day of training with somebody and then we drop the ball - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: There is no consistent, long-term follow through – now, that’s something VAC does do - - -
MICHAEL: Definitely.
DOUG: - - - doesn’t it?
MICHAEL: Oh, absolutely.
DOUG: You do stick with things?
MICHAEL: Absolutely.
DOUG: Do you see yourself being able to possibly get the organisation more involved in – in things like talking to schools, in talking about homophobia and talking about discrimination from a health standpoint?
MICHAEL: Yeah – well, as I said I think we do do (sic) those things but – you know, always – we can be doing them better. (and) I think that – m’mm, I think that the reason that a lot of those things don’t have consistency is because they need to be well funded and they need to have political will behind them. (and) They need to have other people who are committed to implementing them – and I think that if organisations like VAC are going to be doing those – doing that sort of work, you know – it needs to be well funded. It needs to have politicians giving it money and telling it to go off and do the work.
DOUG: Yeah – well, I think we’ve a bit of a Catch-22 there haven’t we because if VAC is going to move into new areas or develop more thoroughly - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - existing areas it needs to position itself in order to do that - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: For the politicians to accept you as – you know, the appropriate channel or whatever-it-is they want to deliver - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: That’s a rather delicate balancing act for someone like you. Do you think your legal training helps you, there – when it comes to arguing those sorts of points with politicians?
MICHAEL: Oh, definitely. Yeah. I – m’mm, you know – before I entered in to academic research I was a practising lawyer and I’m pretty good at putting a case together – and arguing the brief, absolutely.
DOUG: Let’s talk about that a little bit. You worked for “Clayton Utz” which you say is a very different firm in 2009/10, how’s it changed?
MICHAEL: Oh – no, sorry. What I meant I worked – I used – before Clayton Utz, I used to work for – m’mm, Slater and Gordon as a para-legal.
DOUG: Ah.
MICHAEL: (and) M’mm - - -
DOUG: They have – yeah, well we won’t go in to what their reputation is [laughs]
MICHAEL: - - - those firms are both excellent firms but very, very different in terms of the work that they do.
DOUG: Yes.
MICHAEL: Yes – so, I got very well-rounded training from both the plaintiffs’ side and the corporate side.
DOUG: What did you actually do at Clayton Utz?
MICHAEL: So, I did my – what used to be called: articles of clerkship - - -
DOUG: Yes.
MICHAEL: - - - at Clayton Utz – yep – and I - - -
DOUG: That’s like a legal apprenticeship?
MICHAEL: - - - that’s right, yeah.
DOUG: Where you tie-the-pink-ribbons and bring the coffee - - -
MICHAEL: That’s right.
DOUG: - - - and so forth.
MICHAEL: Yeah. So it was a year’s training – m’mm, at Clayton Utz and then I started work at the Michael Kirby Centre after that, at Monash University.
DOUG: Now, that’s a very interesting organisation and I wouldn’t mind talking with you - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: - - - about what that’s about, too – but I think we need to have a little more music at this point. Now this one is one who listeners to this station will be awfully familiar with. It’s our good friend Lady Gaga and: “Telephone”. Why did you pick this one?
MICHAEL: M’mm, this is revealing my trashy side, Doug - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: - - - m’mm, I love Lady Gaga because she’s – you know, trashy and fabulous – and m’mm, well – I love the video clip as well, to this – to this song. It’s outrageous and risqué and – and I think, she’s great. ‘Cause she pushes boundaries.
DOUG: Okay. Well, you don’t need a better reason – just say: I’m a trashy boy and I love her. That’ll do - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - that’ll do. Lady Gaga and: “Telephone”.
[music]
DOUG: This is Doug Pollard and this hour digging deeper with Michael Williams, the newly-elected president of the VAC. We’ve just had a rather trenchant message here, which I won’t read-out [laughs] about the VAC which says basically – m’mm, that you need to have some big changes, there. (and) That a lot of people have been there rather too long. I won’t ask you to compromise yourself by commenting on that - - -
MICHAEL: Thank you, Doug.
DOUG: [laughs] But I’ll just let you know that the sentiment is there. You were 4-years at Slater and Gordon, you met your current partner there – Juan Diego, you’ve been together for 4-years – so you actually had an office romance?
MICHAEL: Yes, I did - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: I had an office romance. It’s a cliché isn’t it? M’mm – but we – m’mm - - -
DOUG: It’s just like something off “Boston Legal”.
MICHAEL: It is. It is - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: We actually went out to Trough night as – as a group. Because the department I worked in in (sic) Slater and Gordon was very – not only very gay-and-lesbian friendly but it had a lot of gay and lesbian para-legals in there as well - - -
DOUG: Yeah.
MICHAEL: I think the person who was in-charge of hiring - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: - - - might’ve – m’mm, been you know – selecting m’mm, you know – selecting gay and lesbian para-legals to work in there. So, we went out to Trough night and that was on the 18th-of-December-2006 and we haven’t been apart since. Isn’t that – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Isn’t that sweet?
MICHAEL: [laughs]
DOUG: Isn’t that sweet; I do love a good romantic story - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - you stopped being a trashy boy and settled down - - -
MICHAEL: That’s right. I have.
DOUG: [laughs]
MICHAEL: I have. Definitely. Very staid.
DOUG: (and) You went to work for the Michael Kirby Centre - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - now I was at the launch of the Michael Kirby Centre - - -
MICHAEL: Did you enjoy it?
DOUG: It was very interesting. This again, comes back to what you mentioned before about – you know, health proceeds from a variety of other - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - situations and if you are being persecuted legally, in your country - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - for example, it’s very difficult to access decent health care.
MICHAEL: Definitely.
DOUG: We know in a lot of countries around-the-world where homosexuality is illegal you have alongside that, very high HIV rates - - -
MICHAEL: Definitely.
DOUG: - - - population [indistinct] very difficult to tackle - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: ‘Cause people are afraid to come forward for treatment. What exactly does your role at the Michael Kirby Centre involve?
MICHAEL: M’mm, my current role is constructing a legal service in Phnom Penh, in Cambodia for – for sex workers and they’re sex workers who are at risk of contracting HIV - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
MICHAEL: - - - and they experience high levels of violence. Not only from clients, primarily from the police and we’re actually working – the Michael Kirby Centre is working with – m’mm, the joint United Nations programme on HIV/AIDS to get that up-and-running. (and) Hopefully it’ll be up-and-running, next year. So basically, it’s to have a dedicated legal service – a dedicated lawyer for the sex workers in Cambodia to advocate on their behalf, with the police – to m’mm, bring advocacy and law reform issues before the courts. For them. To be lobbying with government, to be doing the whole range of things that you would expect a lawyer to be doing.
DOUG: Yes and again, you come back to this other interest of yours in assisting what you might call disadvantaged - - -
MICHAEL: Sure.
DOUG: - - - marginalised communities - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: Not just the gay community.
MICHAEL: Yes, yeah.
DOUG: Obviously, the law is very central to your approach to things. Do you think there is anything in the law now, in Australia that needs to be changed – that is impacting on say, the VAC’s ability to deliver anti-HIV education and so forth, I mean I’m thinking in terms of getting programmes in to schools for example - - -
MICHAEL: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: I’m thinking in terms also, of things – like, criminalisation of - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - transmission. Because – you know, I had some reason to know a bit about that and have been involved in the famous case - - -
MICHAEL: Sure - - -
DOUG: - - - that happened here [Michael Neal] – and covering it; do you think the VAC has a role there, in advocating for changes to those sorts of laws?
MICHAEL: Yeah – look, absolutely and I think that – m’mm, just on the HIV criminalisation point. That is a major issue for – for the community. Because there’s a lot of confusion about whether and to what extent a case will be handled under the criminal law – and to what extent it’ll be handled – m’mm, public health regulations. There is no consistency in terms of – you know, for instance in how prosecutions are taken-up. So I think - - -
DOUG: Yeah. The boundary between the two - - -
MICHAEL: Definitely.
DOUG: - - - ceases to become a health issue and becomes a legal issue - - -
MICHAEL: Absolutely.
DOUG: That was a huge problem - - -
MICHAEL: Absolutely.
DOUG: Been a huge problem for quite-a-while – are you saying that’s not been resolved?
MICHAEL: I think it continues to be an issue, yeah. Throughout Australia and in Victoria as well – I think that – m’mm, I think that organisations like the VAC – you know, are – m’mm, sceptical. Of using the criminal law to be dealing with these – with these sorts of issues of HIV transmission – I mean, its – it’s you know, it does not - - -
DOUG: But surely, the problem is persuading the public health authority to use the powers they have because they do have powers for example, to – you know, if someone is persistently ignoring - - -
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: - - - all the recommendations to stop taking risky-sexual behaviour. There is the power for the public health authorities to lock that person up.
MICHAEL: There are and I think that - - -
DOUG: (and) They don’t use them.
MICHAEL: - - - well, I think - - -
DOUG: Or very, very seldom use them.
MICHAEL: I think that there’s always been a preference to try and – m’mm, you know – use less punitive measures, first. To try and get people to engage in behaviour change and that’s certainly - - -
DOUG: But that exposes people to risk?
MICHAEL: - - - it can. Definitely. But in most cases and – you know, organisations like VAC with its counselling service in most cases once people are actually provided with support the success for behaviour change is quite high and I think that the criminalisation issue is a major one. I would like to see a dedicated lawyer – I would like to see HALC – the legal service at VAC, expanded. Considerably, to be dealing with these cases and to be – m’mm, engaging in advocacy on behalf of – of the community. Because these cases cause a lot of anxiety as you’re aware and – m’mm, and – there remains a lot of confusion about the extent to which a case will be – you know, handled under the criminal law and to when it’ll be handled as a public-health issue.
DOUG: Yeah. I think the point we have to stress is it always seems like a very simple answer, to say – ‘Oh, that person ought to be locked-up’. The trouble is, that if you lock one person up, you put off a lot of other people from reaching out for counselling, for medical assistance, for treatment, and in fact although you may put a few people at risk by dealing with this one person in the community and by medical means, by criminalising their behaviour you put many more people at risk. Because they will not come forward for treatment and they will not come forward for counselling.
MICHAEL: I think that’s a huge concern. I think the criminal law throughout the world has a huge, stigmatising effect - - -
DOUG: (and) What looks like the easy answer is not, in fact.
MICHAEL: - - - absolutely and – you know, what looks like a case of one person doing the wrong thing is actually a very complex situation. Where for instance, in sexual intercourse two people are engaging in that act and it’s the responsibility of – of everyone. To be protecting themselves and – m’mm, to be looking-after their own sexual health – and I think that the criminal law is - - -
DOUG: A bit of a blunt instrument, really?
MICHAEL: - - - to be – to be used very seldomly (sic). Absolutely.
DOUG: M’mm.
MICHAEL: To be used very seldomly.
DOUG: Well, we’re at-one on that one. All right – well, we’ve only about 10-minutes left to talk so I want to get in some more of your music before we finish. We started to play something – just now [laughs] which I can’t pronounce - - -
MICHAEL: Róisín - - -
DOUG: - - - “Róisín” is an Irish name?
MICHAEL: Róisín Murphy. She was the former singer of – m’mm, “Moloko” before they broke up. (and) I was a huge fan of Moloko and her solo music I think, hasn’t got the recognition it’s deserved. I think it’s – she’s really brilliant and she’s got a beautiful voice.
DOUG: Why did you pick this particular track?
MICHAEL: M’mm, just because I think it really displays her – her brilliant, vocal skills so well and again, I loved the video clip.
DOUG: [laughs] The video generation – okay, Róisín Murphy. “You Know Me Better”.
[music]
DOUG: This hour we’re digging deeper with the newly elected president of the VAC, Michael Williams. We haven’t very much time, we’re going to have to wrap this up in fairly short order, Michael. But one-last-thing I did want to ask you about before I let you go. You discovered at 21 that you’re a donor-conceived individual?
MICHAEL: Yes. I – yes, I am. I – m’mm - - -
DOUG: Was that a surprise?
MICHAEL: A huge surprise and I think it’s probably going to take me another 21-years to absorb it and what it means, yes.
DOUG: You can’t track-down who the donor was?
MICHAEL: No. Because I was conceived in Tasmania there is no register as there is in Victoria, for matching donors and offspring.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
MICHAEL: There’s currently a national inquiry on the issue – so, I’m hoping the federal government will recommend a national register be implemented. Be legislated for and implemented so maybe then I’ll have some chance.
DOUG: Well, the best of luck with it.
MICHAEL: Thank you.
DOUG: (and) Also, the best-of-luck at VAC.
MICHAEL: Thank you and can I just say before I go, Doug? Thanks for having me on and can I just say, that World AIDS Day is coming up - - -
DOUG: Indeed.
MICHAEL: - - - and the Victorian AIDS Council is desperate for volunteers so I would encourage people to come forward and – m’mm, fold ribbons and do a lot of other things that we’re doing for World AIDS Day.
DOUG: They can find information about that on - - -
MICHAEL: Yeah.
DOUG: - - - the VAC website.
MICHAEL: Yes.
DOUG: Okay – well, Michael Williams thank you very much - - -
MICHAEL: [indistinct] thank you.
DOUG: Best of luck with it. It’s good to see some new blood.
MICHAEL: Thanks very much.
DOUG: If you pardon the expression [laughs] we have a few more messages to play – but just tell us about your last piece of music, it’s Joni Mitchell: “Free Man in Paris”.
MICHAEL: Yeah. Joni Mitchell is – m’mm, one of the gods of – of music and has been so influential – and this song reminded me of when I was in Paris – and I felt free.
DOUG: Okay - - -
MICHAEL: No burdens.
DOUG: - - - no burdens – oh, you’ve a few now.
[laughs]
DOUG: Michael, thanks very much.
MICHAEL: Thanks very much, Doug.
More about Michael here Really Long Link
