Doug PollardProspects for GLBTI reform in the new Parliament
Freshly Doug interview with Corey Irlam, Australian Coalition for Equality
DOUG: The man who knows more about things political – than anybody else, is our favourite man-about-Canberra. The man who lurks in the corridors of power, for us – Corey Irlam – and he joins us on the line, now. Good morning, Corey.
COREY: Good morning, Doug – although, I don’t like to lurk. I like to be in the sunlight.
DOUG: [laughs] So, this new – kinder – gentler, parliament; this new paradigm or whatever it is – is this a bit more sunshine for our GLBTI lobbyist?
COREY: I think it presents great opportunities for the LGBT community; we saw same-sex marriage – equality bill being introduced, this week – something that just happened this morning, the attorney introduced amendments for the Sex and Age Discrimination Act. That presents opportunities for the Coalition to be good on their commitment during the election, to introduce relationship status protection for our community so that’s something we’ll be following-up in the coming weeks.
DOUG: What do these amendments look like, have you had a chance to run through them?
COREY: No. It happened about two hours ago and I’ll be doing that over our lovely, long weekend up here in Sydney.
DOUG: Well, let us know what the analysis is on that and – m’mm, if we’ve got anything out of it [laughs] because that’s the important bit – both parties did of course commit to making changes to anti-discrimination legislation in our favour, did they not?
COREY: Yeah. The government said that they will do an anti-discrimination enquiry to harmonise all the anti-discrimination bills and that’s slated for some time ‘round the middle of next year.
DOUG: Right - - -
COREY: So, we’ll be seeing more about in the first quarter of next year.
DOUG: So, this stuff – is kind of, interim measures?
COREY: Yeah; so, what they’ve done is they’ve moved forward on introducing an age discrimination commission and that presents the opportunity to raise the profile on discrimination experienced by aged people in our community. Along with some changes to the Sex Discrimination Act around breastfeeding and things like that - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: - - - so that presents an opportunity. If the government wants to move forward on amending the Sex Discrimination Act well it should move forward on including same-sex relationships in the Marital and Relationship Status category of the Sex Discrimination Act. Rather than waiting ‘til next year.
DOUG: We’ve already had the Same Sex Marriage(s) Bill (2006), re-introduced into parliament – it’s the second-go-‘round for the Greens of course, introducing it doesn’t mean it’s actually going to go forward to the floor of the house or anything yet. This just puts it on the agenda, doesn’t it?
COREY: You’ve been listening to Julia Gillard yesterday.
DOUG: [laughs] Well, I was very interested when she kept saying “if”, rather pointedly – you know: “‘if’ this thing moves forward”.
COREY: Yeah. I think there’s an important distinction. She was referring to the House of Representatives, there – m’mm, there still is an “if” it moves forward in the senate but given the broad support – if 50 per cent of Australians are supporting same-sex marriage, I don’t think anybody doesn’t want to have this discussion in the senate. It’s a question of when and how – obviously, the Greens have their new senators coming in 1 July and I understand they’ll be engaging with the community in the coming months. Now that its introduced, how do we take it forward? They’ve already released a petition for people to sign-up to - - -
DOUG: Yes. We just talked about.
COREY: - - - great. Lovely.
DOUG: What about – we know where the Greens stand but what about the independents?
COREY: Well, we know that Wilkie supports it - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: - - - which is good and he was quite vocal about it, during the negotiations after the election. M’mm, we haven’t a firm view on Oakeshott or Tanner – or Windsor. We doubt that Katter - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - supports us – m’mm, because there’s no gay people from his electorate of course. But with Tanner and Mr. Oakeshott have a good history of same-sex law reform, with a level head. Whether that extends to the actual word “marriage” is something that can be discussed if-and-when to use Julia Gillard’s words, ‘if it comes to the House of Representatives’.
DOUG: Yeah – it’s – m’mm, I don’t know. I mean, what is your feeling – do you think we will get a vote on this, in the course of this parliament?
COREY: Look, I think there are a lot of discussions to happen before people start speculating on this. I would hope to see there is a vote and that there is a substantial debate, perhaps more importantly, on this issue. Both sides of government, opposition and the Labor Party need to justify why they oppose – m’mm, having same-sex couples marry and as yet, they have failed to do that. They just say ‘it’s party line’, ‘we don’t agree with it’. But they don’t actually say to the 60 per cent of Australians ‘why’ they disagree with the position.
DOUG: Yeah – well, the Labor line is ‘this is Party policy, we can’t change Party policy therefore we can’t give our members a conscience vote’. That isn’t strictly true is it – I mean, she could - - -
COREY: No, no.
DOUG: - - - decide to unleash them?
COREY: No. No. As ALP Party Rules stand – m’mm, until a decision is made otherwise the conference position that marriage is as contained in the current Marriage Act, is their Party position. A conscience vote is not allowed where the Party has a clear position – or doesn’t have a position [indistinct] conscience vote. So, there are discussions that the ALP needs to have before they could have a conscience vote. But that’s academic – you know, the discussion really is about why you should be doing same-sex marriage and why it is that this campaign is so important to so many people. Not just people who are LGBTI.
DOUG: Still in the studio with me of course – also from the Australian Coalition for Equality is Rod Swift so, say ‘hello’ to Rod, Corey.
COREY: Good day, Rod – we’re everywhere, aren’t we?
ROD: Excellent tag team effort there, today.
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: Thank you.
DOUG: Now, Rod. You had a question you wanted to put to Corey?
ROD: Yeah, Corey – ironically, I’m interviewing somebody from my own organisation so I’ll be gentle; one of the things that has crossed – certainly, a lot of peoples’ minds in the community – is that we seem to be stuck on this figure of around-about six in ten people supporting marriage equality. Can you tell me where you think we need to go as a community to help engage people especially, now we’ve got a private member’s bill ahead of us – and to try and break that and get it more toward 75 per cent of people – or 80 per cent, of people – supporting. Where we’ve got a critical mass, where it puts more and more pressure on the major parties – and do we need to be starting to target the conservatives?
COREY: Look, I think that the first thing to talk about there is the people who have been working in this area, in our community did an absolutely wonderful job. To have at this last election a watershed moment, where we saw this issue go from an inner-city issue. To a Rooty Hill out in the suburbs issue – we saw just after the election, a country town – Queensland couple, having “will you marry me” plastered over their local newspaper. Out in the bush. This is no longer an inner-city issue. That’s the direction we need to move and it needs to be engaging further and deeper into middle-Australia. It needs to be talking about marriage not just as a human right but also, as a social responsibility. That’s something that Kristina Keneally, the New South Wales premier alluded to when they passed through the Relationships Register Bill (2010) [indistinct] Time Out magazine, that she was convinced or quite compelled by an argument – as a conservative person, by an article that was written back in 2001 – that talked about this concept of encouraging gay and lesbian relationships to be a little more responsible of looking after each other. Through institutional, government structures – such as, marriage – and that’s not to say that gays and lesbians in relationships are irresponsible, now - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - it’s about what this government can do to encourage them to take responsibility for that. We’ve seen the government do that in introducing rights and responsibilities through the same-sex entitlements campaign and that, hopefully, will continue that dialogue – with people like Tim Wilson, mount the conservative argument but they don’t get a lot of coverage. It comes down in the media very much to be just a same-sex right – this isn’t a same-sex right, this is a human right. It’s also about encouraging people to have that responsible form of relationship; so, there’re a whole range of arguments that are out there, that are being put by the gay and lesbian community. But perhaps aren’t receiving the high profile that some of the other arguments are, in mainstream Australia.
DOUG: Does that satisfy you, Rod [laughs] the party line from the other member of the party - - -
COREY: We actually haven’t discussed that point before. I might get in trouble there, by the Party - - -
DOUG: - - - [laughs] - - -
COREY: - - - for using the word “responsibility”. Let’s say, that’s a personal position.
DOUG: There’s a lot to be said for contacting your local MP and making your views known, on this issue. Also contacting your local MP and making your views known on the marriage issue or any other anti-discrimination issue, as well – or any other one that affects us. Because – m’mm, you know – our opponents are never very slow to contact their members of parliament but we often are.
COREY: That’s right – and there’s often something else that people perhaps aren’t aware of, that is – if you have a Liberal Party member for your local member there is usually an ALP senator assigned to your electorate. So you’re able to talk to both parties from your electorate and that’s available on the ALP’s website and likewise, on the Liberal Party’s website – so, if you’ve got an ALP member you’ve got a Liberal senator looking after your electorate and it’s really important you engage with both sides of politics - - -
DOUG: Yes.
COREY: - - - where you’re able to. I think, at the right time as the campaign shapes-up and we’ve done this before through the senate enquiry, the Australian marriage equality co-ordinated that – m’mm, at the right time – when they [indistinct] is passed through, broader community support for engaging in a process [indistinct] will happen. That doesn’t stop somebody actually picking up the ‘phone and saying: hey, today I read about marriage being introduced - - -
DOUG: Yeah - - -
COREY: - - - why aren’t you supporting it?
DOUG: Corey, we’re going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us today. We’ll talk to you again, very soon.
COREY: Look forward to it, Doug. Goodbye.
DOUG: Goodbye. That’s Corey Irlam there, from the Australian Coalition for Equality.
DOUG: The man who knows more about things political – than anybody else, is our favourite man-about-Canberra. The man who lurks in the corridors of power, for us – Corey Irlam – and he joins us on the line, now. Good morning, Corey.
COREY: Good morning, Doug – although, I don’t like to lurk. I like to be in the sunlight.
DOUG: [laughs] So, this new – kinder – gentler, parliament; this new paradigm or whatever it is – is this a bit more sunshine for our GLBTI lobbyist?
COREY: I think it presents great opportunities for the LGBT community; we saw same-sex marriage – equality bill being introduced, this week – something that just happened this morning, the attorney introduced amendments for the Sex and Age Discrimination Act. That presents opportunities for the Coalition to be good on their commitment during the election, to introduce relationship status protection for our community so that’s something we’ll be following-up in the coming weeks.
DOUG: What do these amendments look like, have you had a chance to run through them?
COREY: No. It happened about two hours ago and I’ll be doing that over our lovely, long weekend up here in Sydney.
DOUG: Well, let us know what the analysis is on that and – m’mm, if we’ve got anything out of it [laughs] because that’s the important bit – both parties did of course commit to making changes to anti-discrimination legislation in our favour, did they not?
COREY: Yeah. The government said that they will do an anti-discrimination enquiry to harmonise all the anti-discrimination bills and that’s slated for some time ‘round the middle of next year.
DOUG: Right - - -
COREY: So, we’ll be seeing more about in the first quarter of next year.
DOUG: So, this stuff – is kind of, interim measures?
COREY: Yeah; so, what they’ve done is they’ve moved forward on introducing an age discrimination commission and that presents the opportunity to raise the profile on discrimination experienced by aged people in our community. Along with some changes to the Sex Discrimination Act around breastfeeding and things like that - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: - - - so that presents an opportunity. If the government wants to move forward on amending the Sex Discrimination Act well it should move forward on including same-sex relationships in the Marital and Relationship Status category of the Sex Discrimination Act. Rather than waiting ‘til next year.
DOUG: We’ve already had the Same Sex Marriage(s) Bill (2006), re-introduced into parliament – it’s the second-go-‘round for the Greens of course, introducing it doesn’t mean it’s actually going to go forward to the floor of the house or anything yet. This just puts it on the agenda, doesn’t it?
COREY: You’ve been listening to Julia Gillard yesterday.
DOUG: [laughs] Well, I was very interested when she kept saying “if”, rather pointedly – you know: “‘if’ this thing moves forward”.
COREY: Yeah. I think there’s an important distinction. She was referring to the House of Representatives, there – m’mm, there still is an “if” it moves forward in the senate but given the broad support – if 50 per cent of Australians are supporting same-sex marriage, I don’t think anybody doesn’t want to have this discussion in the senate. It’s a question of when and how – obviously, the Greens have their new senators coming in 1 July and I understand they’ll be engaging with the community in the coming months. Now that its introduced, how do we take it forward? They’ve already released a petition for people to sign-up to - - -
DOUG: Yes. We just talked about.
COREY: - - - great. Lovely.
DOUG: What about – we know where the Greens stand but what about the independents?
COREY: Well, we know that Wilkie supports it - - -
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
COREY: - - - which is good and he was quite vocal about it, during the negotiations after the election. M’mm, we haven’t a firm view on Oakeshott or Tanner – or Windsor. We doubt that Katter - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - supports us – m’mm, because there’s no gay people from his electorate of course. But with Tanner and Mr. Oakeshott have a good history of same-sex law reform, with a level head. Whether that extends to the actual word “marriage” is something that can be discussed if-and-when to use Julia Gillard’s words, ‘if it comes to the House of Representatives’.
DOUG: Yeah – it’s – m’mm, I don’t know. I mean, what is your feeling – do you think we will get a vote on this, in the course of this parliament?
COREY: Look, I think there are a lot of discussions to happen before people start speculating on this. I would hope to see there is a vote and that there is a substantial debate, perhaps more importantly, on this issue. Both sides of government, opposition and the Labor Party need to justify why they oppose – m’mm, having same-sex couples marry and as yet, they have failed to do that. They just say ‘it’s party line’, ‘we don’t agree with it’. But they don’t actually say to the 60 per cent of Australians ‘why’ they disagree with the position.
DOUG: Yeah – well, the Labor line is ‘this is Party policy, we can’t change Party policy therefore we can’t give our members a conscience vote’. That isn’t strictly true is it – I mean, she could - - -
COREY: No, no.
DOUG: - - - decide to unleash them?
COREY: No. No. As ALP Party Rules stand – m’mm, until a decision is made otherwise the conference position that marriage is as contained in the current Marriage Act, is their Party position. A conscience vote is not allowed where the Party has a clear position – or doesn’t have a position [indistinct] conscience vote. So, there are discussions that the ALP needs to have before they could have a conscience vote. But that’s academic – you know, the discussion really is about why you should be doing same-sex marriage and why it is that this campaign is so important to so many people. Not just people who are LGBTI.
DOUG: Still in the studio with me of course – also from the Australian Coalition for Equality is Rod Swift so, say ‘hello’ to Rod, Corey.
COREY: Good day, Rod – we’re everywhere, aren’t we?
ROD: Excellent tag team effort there, today.
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: Thank you.
DOUG: Now, Rod. You had a question you wanted to put to Corey?
ROD: Yeah, Corey – ironically, I’m interviewing somebody from my own organisation so I’ll be gentle; one of the things that has crossed – certainly, a lot of peoples’ minds in the community – is that we seem to be stuck on this figure of around-about six in ten people supporting marriage equality. Can you tell me where you think we need to go as a community to help engage people especially, now we’ve got a private member’s bill ahead of us – and to try and break that and get it more toward 75 per cent of people – or 80 per cent, of people – supporting. Where we’ve got a critical mass, where it puts more and more pressure on the major parties – and do we need to be starting to target the conservatives?
COREY: Look, I think that the first thing to talk about there is the people who have been working in this area, in our community did an absolutely wonderful job. To have at this last election a watershed moment, where we saw this issue go from an inner-city issue. To a Rooty Hill out in the suburbs issue – we saw just after the election, a country town – Queensland couple, having “will you marry me” plastered over their local newspaper. Out in the bush. This is no longer an inner-city issue. That’s the direction we need to move and it needs to be engaging further and deeper into middle-Australia. It needs to be talking about marriage not just as a human right but also, as a social responsibility. That’s something that Kristina Keneally, the New South Wales premier alluded to when they passed through the Relationships Register Bill (2010) [indistinct] Time Out magazine, that she was convinced or quite compelled by an argument – as a conservative person, by an article that was written back in 2001 – that talked about this concept of encouraging gay and lesbian relationships to be a little more responsible of looking after each other. Through institutional, government structures – such as, marriage – and that’s not to say that gays and lesbians in relationships are irresponsible, now - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
COREY: - - - it’s about what this government can do to encourage them to take responsibility for that. We’ve seen the government do that in introducing rights and responsibilities through the same-sex entitlements campaign and that, hopefully, will continue that dialogue – with people like Tim Wilson, mount the conservative argument but they don’t get a lot of coverage. It comes down in the media very much to be just a same-sex right – this isn’t a same-sex right, this is a human right. It’s also about encouraging people to have that responsible form of relationship; so, there’re a whole range of arguments that are out there, that are being put by the gay and lesbian community. But perhaps aren’t receiving the high profile that some of the other arguments are, in mainstream Australia.
DOUG: Does that satisfy you, Rod [laughs] the party line from the other member of the party - - -
COREY: We actually haven’t discussed that point before. I might get in trouble there, by the Party - - -
DOUG: - - - [laughs] - - -
COREY: - - - for using the word “responsibility”. Let’s say, that’s a personal position.
DOUG: There’s a lot to be said for contacting your local MP and making your views known, on this issue. Also contacting your local MP and making your views known on the marriage issue or any other anti-discrimination issue, as well – or any other one that affects us. Because – m’mm, you know – our opponents are never very slow to contact their members of parliament but we often are.
COREY: That’s right – and there’s often something else that people perhaps aren’t aware of, that is – if you have a Liberal Party member for your local member there is usually an ALP senator assigned to your electorate. So you’re able to talk to both parties from your electorate and that’s available on the ALP’s website and likewise, on the Liberal Party’s website – so, if you’ve got an ALP member you’ve got a Liberal senator looking after your electorate and it’s really important you engage with both sides of politics - - -
DOUG: Yes.
COREY: - - - where you’re able to. I think, at the right time as the campaign shapes-up and we’ve done this before through the senate enquiry, the Australian marriage equality co-ordinated that – m’mm, at the right time – when they [indistinct] is passed through, broader community support for engaging in a process [indistinct] will happen. That doesn’t stop somebody actually picking up the ‘phone and saying: hey, today I read about marriage being introduced - - -
DOUG: Yeah - - -
COREY: - - - why aren’t you supporting it?
DOUG: Corey, we’re going to have to leave it there. Thank you very much for joining us today. We’ll talk to you again, very soon.
COREY: Look forward to it, Doug. Goodbye.
DOUG: Goodbye. That’s Corey Irlam there, from the Australian Coalition for Equality.
