Doug PollardThe Man Who Founded Joy
Melbourne community radio station Joy 94.9 was the first full time gay and lesbian radio station in the world, and has just celebrated it's 17th birthday. Today I go Digging Deeper with the station's founder, John Oliver.
DOUG: This hour we’re going to be Digging Deeper as we usually do with one, special person and that special person today is particularly special. Because he’s the man who started this radio station; he’s our Member #1 and our founder, Mr. John Oliver and he chose – don’t blame me - - -
[laughs]
DOUG: - - - that last piece of music which certainly took me back to my childhood. I do remember it well; but John? Why did you pick that particular one.
JOHN: Well, I picked that particular one – it was the start of me being interested in radio, I suppose.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: M’mm – I was only about nine or 10. My mother took me shopping, my father had passed away and she took me down to Coles [laughs] in Coburg. She said: I know what we’ll buy you – we know that you like “Doggy in the Window”. So she bought the 78-version of “Doggy in the Window” – so. That’ll tell you how old I am, these days.
DOUG: I remember 78s.
JOHN: Yeah.
[laughs]
JOHN: But – m’mm, no – it’s a significant song, over the years. Actually. For me; and I like songs that are a little cheery and lyrical – and a little bit different – like, a lot of things in my life [laughs]
DOUG: There were an awful lot of songs like that, around in the 50s. Weren’t there?
JOHN: Yeah. There was, yeah.
DOUG: What you might call: novelty songs. I suppose?
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: (and) They were actually – you know, before people like the Beatles came along - - -
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: - - - they were kind-of like the staple of what was then called: The Hit Parade.
JOHN: Yes, that’s right.
[laughs]
DOUG: (and) As you say they were on big, heavy 78s.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: M’mm, of which I think I still have a few – can you believe?
[laughs]
DOUG: Tucked-away somewhere. I have no idea what’s on them, they might even be my grandmother’s – but they go back quite a long way, John. Welcome back to your radio station.
JOHN: Thank you very much.
DOUG: It’s nice to see you in the studio, again.
JOHN: It’s everybody’s radio station.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: I must correct you, there. Doug.
DOUG: Well – you’ve played a very special role in it and we’ll come to how you came to do that, as we go along. But I want to go right back to the beginning. You mentioned about going down to Coles and buying the 78 but let’s take you back to your childhood; where-abouts (sic) were you born?
JOHN: Coburg.
DOUG: Right. So, you’re a - - -
JOHN: Sacred Heart Hospital.
DOUG: So, you’re a Melbourne boy through-and-through.
JOHN: Yep. M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: What about your parents, what were they like?
JOHN: My mother was fantastic – m’mm, she carried the family through for 50, 60-years. She died when she was 83. But my father passed-away when I was a very young child. I was only 11 and I found him. On the floor of the bathroom – myself. (and) I was only eight at-the-time. With a stroke.
DOUG: M’mm. That must’ve been quite traumatic for you?
JOHN: It was, actually – m’mm, at the time when that happened dad and I had a really good relationship. I remember vaguely, different things that happened and I’ve typed a few things on the computer, over the last few years. This history of when my dad was with me, was very interesting. I found him on the floor – collapsed, they said he wouldn’t last 24-hours – it was a major stroke, in the main artery to the brain. He did last, for another 3-years but of course all his left-side was not there.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
JOHN: Eventually, he couldn’t speak properly. At all. It was pretty serious and heavy at that time – but, ‘cause there were no pensions and none of that sort-of stuff you have today.
DOUG: It must’ve been pretty hard for your mother?
JOHN: A very big struggle for mum, ‘cause my younger brother was only 6-months-old at the time when this all happened.
DOUG: Were there just the two of you?
JOHN: No. Three.
DOUG: Three?
JOHN: Three, in the family. I’ve an older brother, Raymond and a younger brother. Russell. It’s an interesting life that I’ve had; a year later I went in to my father, sitting in the lounge room at Coburg and sat-down with him. He smiled at me and pointed to his left leg and said – well, didn’t say anything. But moved it and I thought: I’m the first one to see this. I was rather shocked that this happened so I raced-out to my mother and told her to come in and see what Dad’s doing. Then – yeah, a couple of other things. He started walking, they got him up-and-walking.
DOUG: In those days they didn’t know about the rehabilitation that was possible.
JOHN: No. No.
DOUG: Now we make people get up and make people walk.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: We can re-wire pathways in the brain by giving people tasks and things.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: But we didn’t know anything about that then, did we?
JOHN: No. Nothing like that at that stage and of course all my brothers and myself are very much prone to having a stroke. ‘Cause we’ve got Factor-5 in our blood and it’s very rare the 3-of-us would have it. But the whole family seems to be having it – we say that’s the cause of dad having a stroke, at the time.
DOUG: How old would he have been, at the time?
JOHN: He was 42.
DOUG: Which is quite young, to have a stroke.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: I do know people who’ve had them at very young ages - - -
JOHN: Oh, yeah. I know that.
DOUG: - - - but it’s not common.
JOHN: No.
DOUG: Unless you’ve some kind-of predisposition; what sort of work did he do?
JOHN: He had his own business. He worked with stainless steel, made sinks. Made [indistinct] covers for the number plates and all sorts of other stainless-steel things – manufacturer. Designer and all that sort-of thing. Yeah.
DOUG: M’mm. Did this mean your mother had to go out to work?
JOHN: Mum did some part-time work; we were very lucky, my grandmother lived next door. She was my father’s mother and she looked after us when mum went out to work of-a-night, waitressing. Working with food and all that sort-of thing; she had a job, that I can vaguely remember. She enjoyed herself but it was certainly, a big struggle for her.
DOUG: Let’s talk about your schooling. How were your school days?
JOHN: Difficult.
DOUG: Why?
JOHN: [laughs] Where do I start with it – m’mm? I remember in State school at-the-time.
DOUG: Yes.
JOHN: I was not an excellent reader. Put it that way and I always had trouble putting-it-all together. I was made to stand-up by the Headmaster of the school and my teacher, in-front of all the class and made to read – of course, that’s the worst thing you can do to John Oliver.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
JOHN: Even today, it’s the worst thing you can do.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: It’s best for me to just walk in, do it and walk out again. Then I’m fine – now.
DOUG: Right – is this a kind of dyslexia with you?
JOHN: It is a dyslexic problem.
DOUG: Yeah.
JOHN: What happened; ‘cause I didn’t do it properly I was dragged down to the Headmaster’s office and given the strap. Several times.
DOUG: This is not enlightened child rearing, is it?
JOHN: No. It isn’t it and of course, my father had only just died too.
DOUG: M’mm. M’mm.
JOHN: So I was not coping – as a child, not very well and of course all of this (sic) on top of that – then I went home and I told my mother about it. Well, she went up and she didn’t come down [laughs] she went and told him well-and-truly off – so.
DOUG: Sometimes that doesn’t help, actually.
JOHN: No.
DOUG: Because I was bullied at school and my mother went charging in there and in the long-run it actually made things worse.
JOHN: Yes but the thing is - - -
DOUG: Oh he can’t stand-up for himself he’s got to get his mother in to do it.
JOHN: - - - m’mm. A teacher shouldn’t be bullying.
DOUG: No.
JOHN: Especially the Headmaster.
DOUG: No.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: Especially not.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: Were you picked-on generally at school, then?
JOHN: No. No, no. No - - -
DOUG: You stood-out or anything?
JOHN: - - - wasn’t out at that stage. I didn’t know what it was.
DOUG: Did you just try very hard to blend-in?
JOHN: I tried very hard at blending in at State school, working with everyone at State school; then I went to Coburg Technical School where – you know: John, go and do a technical course you’ll be able to do that – you’re most likely to be able to cope with that sort-of thing.
DOUG: M’mm.
JOHN: But no. John didn’t need to do that, John didn’t want to do that – John had this idea he wanted to be involved with radio; he had this idea that he wanted to spin-the-records and have a good time behind a microphone.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: So - - -
DOUG: Where did radio come from?
JOHN: - - - well; as I said the record we just played with Patty Page it seemed to trigger something within me that all I wanted to do was be involved with records, music and announcing – and I had this thing, this bug. That I just had to do it.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: (and) It was really, really quite nerve-wracking at-the-time and up until – about, ooh. M’mm, 15 – 16-years-ago. 17-years ago, even earlier.
DOUG: M’mm?
JOHN: I had this bug. But we’ll get-up to that.
[laughs]
JOHN: But the bug has now quietened down.
DOUG: It’s had a fair bit of exercise over the years.
JOHN: Yes. Yes it has – yes, yes.
DOUG: So we’ll come on to your radio school days and how you started to get in to radio.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: In just a moment; but I think we’ll have another piece of music first – now, this is something of a classic.
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: Isn’t it? A good-old-standard: The Lady is a Tramp. But this is the Glee version.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: Do you like Glee?
JOHN: I love ‘em. I reckon they’re really good – it’s good TV because it’s not: cops-and-robbers. Or solicitors – or medical - - -
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: - - - and a bit of music always brightens everyone-up.
DOUG: It’s interesting that it’s almost single-handedly put a boost behind the musical theatre genre, hasn’t it.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: Even though it’s not that wonderful as musical theatre – it’s sort-of trying to make a genre all its own, isn’t it?
JOHN: Yes. I think it’s sadly lacking on TV. We should have a little bit more variety and I’d like to see more variety shows back on TV because I think that’s what we all need. Because we’d be cheer-up – instead of having cops and robbers, running around shooting each other.
DOUG: I’m certain at-one with you, there.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: I was only thinking the other day – if only, we could take all the legal, police – medical – shows off air. I mean, there’d be nothing left. The way - - -
JOHN: That’s true [laughs]
DOUG: - - - apart from reality television and I’m not going there. Any particular reason why this song, though?
JOHN: It’s one of my favourite tracks, one of my favourite tunes over the years I’ve always liked and when I bought the CD a few weeks ago I thought: gee, that’s really good I like that. They did it really, really well and I thoroughly enjoyed it.
DOUG: Okay – so, here from Glee is: “The Lady is a Tramp”.
[music]
DOUG: This is Doug Pollard, Digging Deeper this hour with the founder of Joy Melbourne – John Oliver and – a pretty lively version of: The Lady is a Tramp.
JOHN: Wonderful.
DOUG: From “Glee”, there. Yes. I had a look to see which character it was doing the lead, there. It was Puck, our punk-friend who claims he can get a hold of any woman in the show and so far, seems to be doing quite well at it. Going back in time again – radio school.
JOHN: M’mm?
DOUG: What’s a radio school?
JOHN: Well, the school - - -
DOUG: This is my radio school.
JOHN: - - - [laughs] Lee Murray. It was Lee Murray Radio School, a school for radio that Bert Newton, Phillip Brady and quite a few other well-known people went to. My mother took me to 3XY many years ago, to find-out where I could get involved with radio. They suggested I go and see Lee Murray, sit down and have a bit of a chat with him. They got me into radio school with Lee Murray for 3-years.
DOUG: Three years?
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: That’s a long time. What did you learn?
JOHN: I learnt how to ad-lib. I learnt how to read a sponsorship or a commercial but nowadays it’s totally changed. ‘Cause you used to have put your radio-voice on and all that sort-of thing. Now, you’re just more natural.
DOUG: Yes.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: It’s very strange when you’re working with somebody as I have done a couple of times, here at Joy. Who has a radio voice that suddenly appears when you switch the mikes on [laughs]
JOHN: Mine can do it – I just do it sometimes and it’s mainly if I have to do a special announcement or some sort of a - - -
DOUG: Well, if you’re doing - - -
JOHN: - - - sponsorship.
DOUG: If you’re doing a sponsorship announcement - - -
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: - - - or something like that. That’s a different thing – but actually, well – I don’t really DJ. I just introduce the odd-bit-of music while I get my breath.
JOHN: [laughs]
DOUG: In-between talking with people ‘cause that’s the point of the show. But radio school? Did this help you to get a job in radio.
JOHN: No. Because I had this problem with reading and no-one could seem to sort-it-out, for me. To cope with it. I was never really confident enough to take-it-on, fully. But I met my first love.
DOUG: Well, you got something out of it?
JOHN: [indistinct] a bit. I met him and for 10-years, I was with Barry and I decided to stay away from the whole thing. ‘Cause it was all a bit bitchy at the time and - - -
DOUG: No comment [laughs]
JOHN: - - - very dramatic. I couldn’t cope with that sort-of thing. It was just something, I’d decided to give it a little rest for a-while.
DOUG: M’mm.
JOHN: So that was what happened, there.
DOUG: But the bug never left you?
JOHN: No, no. No, no – the bug never left me – well. It left a little while, during that period and then I sort-of started fiddling about with getting turntables together, doing music and doing things again. While we were living down at Rosebud. I set-up a little set up down there – but prior to that in my earlier years, I’d set-up a whole radio station. At the Coburg Technical School. We had our own little programmes. It was one of the first radio stations in a school, at the time and that was quite a few years ago.
DOUG: This is not broadcast radio?
JOHN: No, no.
DOUG: This is - - -
JOHN: Just around the school.
DOUG: A bit like hospital radio.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: Where you have [indistinct] radio, yeah?
JOHN: M’mm. Yeah – wires [laughs] not a transmitter.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: Landline, if you like.
[laughs]
DOUG: Yeah; school radio?
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: I’ve never been to a school where they had a school radio – what did put out on the - - -
JOHN: I’d play – in the lunchtime, we used to play all the different popular tunes. Different information going on, in the school.
DOUG: You had – like, loudspeakers all over the school?
JOHN: Yes. Used the PA system to put it through.
DOUG: Right – so, it was a bit like living in North Korea?
JOHN: A little bit, yes.
[laughs]
DOUG: This is something I’ve only ever seen on movies or in Simpsons’ cartoons, where you have a PA system throughout the whole school. I went to some very old-fashioned English schools.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: We didn’t have all this kind of technology, built-in to the schools there.
JOHN: Well, we had it there.
DOUG: So you had loudspeakers in all the classrooms?
JOHN: Yes, yes. Yeah. It went all through but it was only ever happening as I said, at lunchtime.
DOUG: M’mm.
JOHN: A lot of people got involved. A lot of people liked it, they thoroughly enjoyed it.
DOUG: Did that act as some kind-of a bug transmitter for some people?
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: Who got interested in radio?
JOHN: Yes, it did. It did get a lot of people involved. It’s something that has just come back to me – if I can, just quickly?
DOUG: M’mm?
JOHN: I had started Joy and it was about two or 3-years into it and all these fellows turned-up from nowhere. They’re all gay and they’d all come from the same school, in the same class that I was involved in [laughs] when I was at Coburg Tech and even from State school – and they knew who I was and everything, from the radio – and everything.
DOUG: Yeah.
JOHN: They wanted to sort-of catch up with me, again. So that was quite interesting.
DOUG: Oh, that was good.
JOHN: Yeah. I was sort-of – like, blown-away; but it was about the third year of Joy, actually.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: It’s interesting – did you know they were gay at the time?
JOHN: No, no.
DOUG: Not at all; one thing we haven’t talked about at all, was there a coming out amidst all this?
JOHN: Yes – m’mm, I knew I was gay. When I was 15, 16.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
JOHN: Of course, I didn’t say anything to my mother. Because I loved her dearly and in those years you had to watch what you did. But not me, I used to get into all sorts of trouble but we won’t go there [laughs]
DOUG: Why not? It sounds like it might be interesting.
[laughs]
JOHN: When I was 19, I had a choice of either telling my mother or leaving the State. I decided that no-one tells me what to do – stubborn John Oliver – and I told my mother, she was shattered. She was going to leave her new husband and look after me, that’s what she said.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm.
JOHN: “I’ve got to send you off to a psychiatrist” I went to the token-psychiatrist, just to please her and I realised that there was no turning back. I sat there, at the time and spoke with the psychiatrist about it all. He said: You’ve got your head screwed on right, you’ll be okay.
DOUG: M’mm?
JOHN: So it – basically, I left home at that stage. Went and lived with Barry, for 10-years. It worked-in well; mum stayed with her husband at the time and everything was hunky-doree (sic).
DOUG: You’d obviously re-connected with your mother?
JOHN: Yes, yes.
DOUG: It was only a temporary - - -
JOHN: Yes. It was only a temporary thing – like, a week. Or two weeks. But it was right-on Christmas-time. I was 19 and there were lots of tears, lots of upsets and lots of stuff which I thought at the time: It shouldn’t be like this. These were some of the seeds when I look back, for Joy – and about, Joy – now; this is what Joy is about. To make the parents also, realise that – you know? It’s happened. You’ve got to live with it – get on with it, don’t chastise your child. Look after them, cuddle them and love them. Mum did love me but – m’mm, she had a different [indistinct] way at times.
[laughs]
DOUG: Again, in that era it was considered something so terribly, terribly shameful.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: That it was a big shock, to parents.
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: When one came out. I had a similar experience to yours, where my mother cried and said: So long as you’re happy. (and) My father said: Do you want to see a doctor?
[laughs]
DOUG: Which is pretty much par for-the-course in that era, I think.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: You know?
JOHN: I must admit when I look-back on it, I think if my father was still alive it might’ve been a lot different. ‘Cause my father was fantastic, with me. I remember a lot of wonderful things which happened with father prior to him becoming ill and it really was something that I know if Dad was still alive it would’ve been easier coming out. Than what it was. For me, at that time.
DOUG: But no regrets, obviously.
JOHN: No. No, no – no regrets at all.
DOUG: Absolutely not.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: You’ve written me in the notes you’ve given me, you had your own landline radio station.
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: Is this the school one you were talking about?
JOHN: No, no. This is one at home.
DOUG: A home? Landline - - -
JOHN: Radio station.
DOUG: - - - now what’s one of those?
JOHN: We had wires running down the back fence. Right along the whole of Mitchell Parade and we wired all the different people, up. (and) We had our own landline radio station.
DOUG: How many listeners did you have, how many houses did you wire-up?
JOHN: About 25 to 30 – at the time, I was very young.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: Don’t forget, I was only about 16. Seventeen.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: We got it all going and we did quite well. Then, Barry came along and the gay life came along.
DOUG: I’m fascinated. Somebody going out and wiring-up all the neighbours and broadcasting to them?
JOHN: Well, we couldn’t transmit. We weren’t allowed to transmit.
DOUG: No. But you - - -
JOHN: I knew about how to do that sort-of thing ‘cause a friend, Clark Sinclair was doing it. Down at St. Kilda.
DOUG: Yeah. Were there many of these little, personal radio stations around the place?
JOHN: Not that I knew of.
DOUG: No. I’d never heard of any of them.
[laughs]
DOUG: I didn’t even know you could do it.
JOHN: Oh, well. You did - - -
DOUG: I suppose if you’ve the technical savvy?
JOHN: - - - yes. You can get it done. M’mm.
DOUG: Where did you get the technical know-how, from? To do all this.
JOHN: It was just – built-in, for a better way of putting it.
DOUG: Yes?
JOHN: Yes. It was something I could do and did it quite well. I was also trained as an electrician – but that had nothing to do with it, really.
DOUG: It’s still wires.
JOHN: Sparkies – it’s still wires.
[laughs]
JOHN: But - - -
DOUG: Shows how much I know.
JOHN: - - - got tired of the wires, very quickly. As I wanted to be in radio [laughs]
DOUG: You’ve definitely a creative urge, there. You had to satisfy, somehow?
JOHN: Yes. I set-up this particular radio station and ran it for two or 3-years. All my different mates got involved with it – some weren’t gay, some of them were I found out in the later years – but no. We had a good time.
DOUG: The other very gay profession you dabbled in for a while, you were an interior decorator.
JOHN: Yes, that’s right – at that stage I decided: no, I’m not going to be an electrician anymore. I didn’t want to do it anymore – threw it all in and learnt how to do internal decorating – so, I worked there. Did all that and I’ve a bit of a flair for it all.
DOUG: That’s terribly, terribly gay though. Isn’t it?
JOHN: Oh – it is. Yes. But I didn’t realise, at the time.
[laughs]
JOHN: Until I met my boss and I realised – oh, oh. He’s gay.
[laughs]
DOUG: Again, the creative streak coming through.
JOHN: Yes. That’s right.
DOUG: But are you one of these people who re-decorates your own home, every few years?
JOHN: Yes. Yes, I’m shocking for it. My last episode was painting the whole house, through. Putting new tiles in the kitchen and family room – virtually, re-modelling the house. For something to do.
DOUG: Maybe you should get into the property business, John.
JOHN: [laughs]
DOUG: Buy up old properties. Sell them and - - -
JOHN: Well?
DOUG: I’m sure you could.
[laughs]
JOHN: I’ve done more than that – I’ve put a whole extension on to the house and I’ve built a house, too.
DOUG: You sound like a friend of mine in the UK, he’s always saying the house will be finished next year but when it is he moves and starts on another one.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: The current one now, he’s claiming he’s never going to leave. He’s been there for about 8-years and I don’t think there’s a single brick in it that’s an original.
JOHN: [laughs] I know the feeling.
DOUG: He’s more-or-less completely demolished it from the ground, up – floor heating. Putting solar panels on it and everything in-between.
JOHN: Oh my God – yeah.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: I’ve got - - -
DOUG: ‘Cause he can’t move.
JOHN: - - - m’mm, where I am it’s a very, very good location – the 3-Ls – and it’s something that I’m not in a rush to sell. I was at one stage, going to sell and move on but I decided not to. For several reasons – but the biggest is the 3-Ls. Because it’s so located to everything and anything I’d want to do. Except, Joy.
[laughs]
JOHN: It’s a bit of a train trip.
DOUG: Well, yes. I’m in the same boat. I’d spend more time here if I didn’t live in Eltham.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: But I love living in Eltham.
JOHN: (and) I love living in Frankston.
DOUG: It’s a gorgeous place. The main thing you did job-wise, was working at Safeway’s. I’m sure you’ve lots of stories about what happens in Safeway?
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: But - - -
JOHN: We’re not going to go there.
[laughs]
DOUG: We’ll not go there for at least a moment or two. Because we do have some more music to get through today and you’ve such nice choices. I want to get through them all, if we possibly can; now we’re a bit more up-to-date – the Pet Shop Boys and: New York City Boy. Pet Shop Boys a favourite of yours?
JOHN: Absolutely. I’ve got every album.
DOUG: Every one?
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: Good Lord. So why this particular track – is there something about New York City boys?
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: [laughs] Any New York City boy in particular – or?
JOHN: No, no. No. I just like it.
[laughs]
JOHN: One day I would’ve liked to have gone there. But I can’t anymore, now – so.
DOUG: You’ve not been to New York?
JOHN: No. I can’t go there anymore – I would want to go but for medical reasons, I can’t go.
DOUG: I’ll have to see if I can get a particular cruise ship for you.
JOHN: Yeah. Yeah, I’d do that.
DOUG: Get you across, that way.
JOHN: Yeah.
[laughs]
JOHN: Oh, yeah – I’d love to do that.
DOUG: It’d be just about as much fun as getting there, I should think.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: Cruising all the way over. In the style of the old queens if you’ll pardon the expression?
JOHN: Up at the bow.
DOUG: Please – no.
[laughs]
DOUG: Not Titanic.
[laughs]
DOUG: No, no. Not going there – okay, let’s have this piece of music. We’ve got Pet Shop Boys and: New York City Boy.
[music]
DOUG: This is Digging Deeper this hour with John Oliver, the founder of Joy 94.9. We’ve just had him through a couple of rather gay careers.
[laughs]
DOUG: Including a stint in interior decoration and – well, I don’t know what’s particularly gay about Safeway – but he doesn’t want to go to Safeway - - -
JOHN: No.
DOUG: - - - we’ll leave Safeway out of the equation.
JOHN: Ugh.
DOUG: For the moment [laughs]
JOHN: Safeway was a really great few years and it was 12-years, altogether.
DOUG: That’s a long time.
JOHN: Yes. But I didn’t just do one thing, there.
DOUG: No.
JOHN: I did the PR work and I would [indistinct] and all of them and [indistinct] to promote the new store opening. So I got on the PA and did all that.
DOUG: They let you off the check-outs from time-to-time?
JOHN: Yeah.
[laughs]
JOHN: I was a check-out chick – I was the supervisor at one stage, of all the check-outs at Forest Hill and I went in to the food area, with the Delicatessen. Several Deli managers; then I used to set-up all the new delis, when they’d started.
DOUG: M’mm?
JOHN: I was the supervisor of the delicatessens, for a while. It was quite involved.
DOUG: I think it’s fair to say, you like your food?
JOHN: Yes. I do. I do like my food.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: But I’ve given-up cheese, these days. I’m not allowed to have that anymore.
DOUG: Speaking as a bit of a food-a-holic, myself – I think it’d be a very tempting job to be in charge of a delicatessen.
JOHN: Well, it is and it’s very interesting. You meet all the people that come-up to you – the shoppers – and we used to have a very gay time. At Bentleigh.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: They used to come, to watch the staff and myself. Camping it up like a row of tents and having a wonderful time.
DOUG: I must say both the Eltham supermarkets for example, I met quite a few listeners of Joy working in both supermarkets.
JOHN: [laughs]
DOUG: So – yes, definitely. A gay place to be. We’re getting to the 1980s and you’re living in Mooroolbark?
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: So you’d left your previous boyfriend by then?
JOHN: Yes – oh yes, well-and-truly. The dust had gone – settled – fluttered away and it took 10-years and at the end of the 10-years: oh, glad to get rid of him [laughs]
DOUG: That’s not very nice.
JOHN: Well it was a little rough, near the end.
DOUG: Relationships are difficult to end.
JOHN: Yeah – well, m’mm - - -
DOUG: I don’t think two parties in a relationship ever want to end at quite the same time?
JOHN: We had a home together. I’d bought a flat – we bought a flat, together – which was a big mistake. He went off the tracks, doing things that he – well, I didn’t think were appropriate. I put the place on to the market and – m’mm, he gave it the nod when he shouldn’t have – so. Anyway. That’s history, that’s finished with.
DOUG: So much history.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: But – m’mm, now you’ve met a new one?
JOHN: M’mm. Ian.
DOUG: How did you meet Ian.
JOHN: Member-30. I met Ian – he was hitch-hiking.
[laughs]
JOHN: Going home. To Croydon; and I thought: poor thing, walking in all this heat. I’ll give him a lift – so, I did and he got to talking with me. I didn’t even put the gay-thing in my mind about it – or that side of it, at all. He started talking with me and we decided to catch-up. He was very young and he was new to Melbourne. He’d come from Adelaide, left his parents and we got to talking. He told me all about why he’d left and all the rest of it.
DOUG: M’mm, m’mm?
JOHN: It worked out that yes, he was gay [laughs]
DOUG: I think your gaydar (sic) must’ve been working – even at a sub-conscious level.
JOHN: Yes, I think it might’ve been. Yeah.
[laughs]
DOUG: That’s such a stereotypical gay thing – picking-up a hitch-hiker. I mean?
JOHN: Well, I did feel sorry for him at the time. He’s carrying these heavy bags and he looked so miserable and unhappy so I thought: I’ll give him a lift.
DOUG: Oh.
JOHN: (and) I very rarely do that.
DOUG: That’s very romantic.
JOHN: It was the only time I did it.
DOUG: That’s very romantic, anyway – isn’t it?
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: So you’re living at Mooroolbark at that point.
JOHN: Yes. I had my own home – or unit, in Mooroolbark. At the time. I hated it.
DOUG: You’re always well out of the city, though.
JOHN: Yes – well, I was at Mooroolbark but I really didn’t like it ‘cause there was no water there and I realised we had to move. Because I wanted to be near the water – near the beach.
DOUG: You’ve got to be near the sea?
JOHN: M’mm. Got to be near the sea.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: I’m a sea bunny. So – m’mm, I’m a bit of fish. I don’t know – but anyway, I like to be near the sea. My mother had moved down to Frankston and I’d decided to build a house at Frankston and moved to Frankston – so. I decided that and did that.
DOUG: Frankston doesn’t get a very good wrap, does it?
JOHN: I don’t think people really know Frankston how I would know Frankston.
DOUG: We hear all these jokes about Frankston, Ugg boots and moccasins.
JOHN: It’s very unfair. It’s very unfair.
DOUG: I’ve never seen you wearing moccasins.
JOHN: No. I think it’s very unfair. Yes, there is that trend in all suburbs.
DOUG: Of course.
JOHN: I’ve even seen it at Footscray, Coburg. Pascoe Vale.
[laughs]
JOHN: Everywhere. I mean to say even at Toorak but I mean, everyone’s got a little bit of something in each suburb and – okay. It’s there. But where I live and what I do around Frankston I very rarely see it.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: M’mm. It’s a lovely, lovely area.
DOUG: Yeah. It’s weird the way certain suburbs get a wrap and then it’s hard to shake.
JOHN: M’mm. Frankston’s one of the last places [indistinct] price hike [indistinct] houses. It’s very low and it has been low, for quite a long while. But it’s just starting to tick-off, now. Grow a bit, now.
DOUG: That’s just as much a function of its distance from the city isn’t it, as anything else?
JOHN: It only took me 45 minutes to get up here. It’s quicker to come here by train and tram than come by car.
DOUG: I’m sure it is.
JOHN: Cheaper [laughs]
DOUG: I wouldn’t tackle that journey by car. I have done it.
JOHN: I have, too.
DOUG: When I’ve visited people there. I certainly wouldn’t like the idea of commuting from there on a regular basis. I suppose I could cope with it using the trains and that – but certainly, not on the roads.
JOHN: On the roads I’ve driven-up on many occasions, but coming into the city of Melbourne it is a little difficult ‘cause you pay quite a lot to park the car and it really is cheaper and better to come by public transport.
DOUG: There you are nice and cosy in Frankston. By the sea.
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: With a beach to hand, should you require it and radio rears its head, again.
JOHN: That’s right – 3RPP.
DOUG: What is: 3RPP?
JOHN: Radio Pt. Phillip. Community radio that’s there.
DOUG: There’s another community radio station.
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: Radio Pt. Phillip, based in Mornington.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: What did you do there?
JOHN: You name it, I did it. Production. I did voice-overs. I did a breakfast programme for 5-years. Every day of the week. I – m’mm, got the breakfast programme with the news in it where we had a conversation about different things happening on the Peninsula. We of course, didn’t touch the gay side because that just wasn’t on, then. We tripped-around it all and had a wonderful time at 3RPP for nearly six or 7-years.
DOUG: From there you came back to Melbourne for a bit?
JOHN: Yes.
DOUG: (and) Joined SouthernFM.
JOHN: Yeah. I joined SouthernFM and I was there for ‘round-about 2-years. Doing a programme with a couple of friends who were gay.
DOUG: This leads us directly into the foundation of Joy.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: So, what made you come-up with the idea of a gay radio station?
JOHN: I had this bug and I was trying to work out what was the right way, to go about it all. I decided we didn’t have a voice. We needed to promote Midsumma; we needed to be able to discuss HIV and AIDS. We had to help the youth to find a niche in their lives – get on with their lives, be able to be involved in something they might like to do – careers for people in the gay community. If they wanted to be involved in radio.
DOUG: But did you not - - -
JOHN: Or television.
DOUG: Did you try to start any gay programmes on any of the stations you were at?
JOHN: Yes. On SouthernFM, I went to set-up to do World AIDS ’92.
DOUG: This is World AIDS Day.
JOHN: World AIDS Day ’92.
DOUG: Yeah.
JOHN: They kicked-up a bit about it – we don’t want all this sort-of thing on air – and I said: no, we should be allowed to have it on because it is important we have it on. I went to the committee of management and told them they’ve got a choice; either let us have it on or I’ll take it to the ABA. Because we were allowed to do that. That’s what it was all about.
DOUG: Sure.
JOHN: So, we ended-up having the programme on and two friends of mine said to me, after: When are we starting a radio station for the gay community? I said: Better get off my bottom and do it.
DOUG: Obviously, you had a bit of struggle and when you have a struggle with a radio station, trying to get something up you obviously felt that it would be easier in a way, to go and create a radio station of your own. Than keep fighting, with them?
JOHN: Yeah. I felt that it was important that – I felt, we needed a voice for the community at large. It was about time someone did something about it and I’d had a lot of experience, being able to set things up and do things. So I decided to move on and start Joy.
DOUG: We’ll talk about what you did and how you did it - - -
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: - - - in just a moment. But let’s take a wee bit more music, here – Monkey Suit. Elton John and Leon Russell – now, there’s a name I haven’t heard for a long time: Leon Russell.
JOHN: No. He’s very old.
[laughs]
JOHN: He’s older than you or I, Doug.
DOUG: He must be.
[laughs]
DOUG: I remember his records being around when I was a kid.
JOHN: Yeah.
DOUG: Monkey Suit?
JOHN: Yeah – well, it’s called: Monkey Suit. The name of the track and I liked it – of course, Elton John is the same age as me. Born the same year as me and in April.
DOUG: Lived in the same borough as me, in London.
JOHN: Oh, wow.
DOUG: [laughs]
JOHN: That’s really interesting. Did you ever meet him?
DOUG: No, I didn’t.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: He went to a different school but a friend of mine had a house, opposite to where he used to live [indistinct] when he was a boy. But no, I can’t claim any kinship with him. I did meet Long John Baldry, once.
JOHN: Did you?
DOUG: Yeah. ‘Cause he rather liked my school uniform.
JOHN: M’mm – oh [laughs]
DOUG: But that’s - - -
JOHN: [laughs] We won’t go there.
DOUG: - - - another story. He was another friend of Elton John’s, too.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: But this particular track – just because you like the track?
JOHN: Yes and it’s Elton’s new album. I thought – no, I like the track. We’ll pop that in and play it.
DOUG: A great supporter of gay causes [indistinct] for HIV. Affectionately known amongst his friends as “Sharon”, I’m told.
JOHN: Yeah. Yeah.
DOUG: Here he is with Leon Russell, “Monkey Suit”.
[music]
DOUG: We’re Digging Deeper this hour with our founder, John Oliver. We haven’t talked very much about Joy. We’ve talked about John. That’s the whole object of this hour, to go into the history before Joy came on-the-scene. But we really can’t go without talking a little bit about Joy itself.
JOHN: True.
DOUG: We had a message in, from another long, long, long-time member Alan Smails who says:
[reads]
“It’s good to hear you back on air again albeit for this brief moment”
DOUG: (and) He reminds you of the early days over that hardware shop in South Melbourne doing a Sunday morning hospital programme. For AIDS hospital patients.
JOHN: That’s right.
DOUG: I remember the South Melbourne studios.
JOHN: M’mm, m’mm.
DOUG: It’s not really all that long ago we’d left.
JOHN: No.
DOUG: As I was just saying to Anastasia, one of our trainees who’s here with us in the studios here, today. You could’ve fitted the whole of that studio into the foyer of the studios we’ve now got.
JOHN: That’s true, m’mm.
DOUG: However did you manage, in those days?
JOHN: In those days – well, we were only broadcasting weekends. That was the whole idea of it.
DOUG: M’mm?
JOHN: It catered very well, for what we were using it for (sic). It was never meant to be a full-time broadcast from there. When we got our full-time license, we were planning on moving to where we are now.
DOUG: M’mm.
JOHN: Something like this. I find, they struggled through for all those years down in South Melbourne and it was a credit to everybody – and anybody, who was involved with Joy – because it was quite a task.
DOUG: It was [laughs] we had some very old equipment.
JOHN: Ooh, some very old equipment. I think it was older than me, some of it. The desk we got from 3XY I found in a chook yard – but that’s another story [laughs] but I literally did. There were pigeons everywhere. An old chook yard; the chooks weren’t there anymore but here’s this huge, big desk. Wrapped-up in a tarpaulin and we were bringing it to Joy, we were going to put it to air.
DOUG: Yeah?
JOHN: I thought: My God, is this ever going to work?
[laughs]
JOHN: It worked for all those years.
DOUG: Yes. I remember endless problems. Our technical director at the time, perpetually having to re-wire bits of it.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: On one occasion getting very angry ‘cause someone spilt tomato sauce into it.
JOHN: Yes. Jackie – you naughty girl.
[laughs]
DOUG: But it survived a great deal. That panel.
JOHN: M’mm.
DOUG: So did South Melbourne. Looking back on it now – you see where we’ve come to, at this point – I mean – obviously the station’s had its ups-and-downs.
JOHN: M’mm?
DOUG: Over-the-years. You’ve not been too much involved, of recent years?
JOHN: No. Because of my health and – m’mm, I decided to have a break and get on with the life of John Oliver. Do a few things that I wanted to do and with Joy, I felt it was important for everyone to play their part and get involved. Do their thing at Joy – and not, me. Being around all the time. It was best for me to stand back and let others take-the-reigns and run and organise the station because that’s what it was set-up for. It wasn’t just for John Oliver’s ego. It’s here to help people in all sorts of ways, in life.
DOUG: It’s done quite a bit of that and I hope it’s going to be doing it for a good many more years.
JOHN: So do I.
DOUG: I’m glad you had your little baby and I’m glad you’ve let it grow-up and go.
JOHN: M’mm?
DOUG: (and) I’m very glad to be part of it but I think thank you, John. For having the idea and having the guts to push-it-through in the first place.
JOHN: Thank you, Doug. For having me on, today.
DOUG: You’re more than welcome. We’ve one last track to play – before we do that we’ve got to hear some messages, of course. But what’s the last track of yours we’re going to hear?
JOHN: Kylie, of course.
DOUG: Of course.
JOHN: [laughs] Of course.
DOUG: Who else? [indistinct] and thanks for spending this hour with us, John Oliver.
